David Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: Or he did make the connection, knew it was racist and posted it anyway to be “edgy”. Who knows? No one is posting racist stuff online these days to be "edgy." The people who do that kind of shit are either incredibly stupid, or actual racists, as everyone and their fucking dog (or monkey) knows that you run the risk of career suicide by posting anything that could get the Twitterati on your case. Baker strikes me as being neither stupid nor racist, and doesn't seem the "Edgy" type in all honesty. His real crime here is not immediately associating a small monkey dressed in a funny suit with racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted May 9, 2019 Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) This is fine though, if you're a lord and front one of the BBC's biggest franchises you work for the BBC in any capacity. Edited May 9, 2019 by Astro Hollywood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, David said: No one is posting racist stuff online these days to be "edgy." The people who do that kind of shit are either incredibly stupid, or actual racists, as everyone and their fucking dog (or monkey) knows that you run the risk of career suicide by posting anything that could get the Twitterati on your case. Baker strikes me as being neither stupid nor racist, and doesn't seem the "Edgy" type in all honesty. His real crime here is not immediately associating a small monkey dressed in a funny suit with racism. No, he’s been stupid and ignorant. He hasn’t lived under a rock his whole life. He must’ve known that people would find that offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted May 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) For the record, I truly believe that he didn’t make the association in his own mind that the baby was of mixed race parentage. I’d never even considered it myself until someone tweeted out the comments section of a Daily Mail story debating how dark skinned he’d be. Edited May 9, 2019 by garynysmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted May 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: He must’ve known that people would find that offensive. He'd have had to have thought "People will think that this baby (who stands a reasonable chance of having ginger hair!) is Black" first. It never dawned on me that anybody (besides the "Ain't no Black in the Union Jack" types) would until I became aware of some of the reactions to this tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 9, 2019 51 minutes ago, Ronnie said: What does jump out at me, though, is that a number of people seem to have decided that the newborn child of a Causcasian man and a woman with a Caucasian father is black. Perhaps yelling Racist! as an automatic reaction when you've got no reason to read that particular interpretation into something isn't so reasonable after all. It's historically grounded, shaped by racist attitudes. The treatment of mixed children because of their black heritage in predominantly white countries is infamously disgraceful; by contrast, the ill treatment of mixed children for their white heritage by black communities has been much, much less. Add to that the history of slavery, during which white slaves, or, more accurately, "indentured servants", would have had the potential opportunity, as merely human beings in debt, to buy their way out of bondage, but black and mixed slaves were for the most part never allowed to, being simply seen as property, and you have as a consequence the "one drop of blood" principle - even a vestige of black heritage in your family made you black and therefore susceptible in law to being traded as chattel without release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 20 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: No, he’s been stupid and ignorant. He hasn’t lived under a rock his whole life. He must’ve known that people would find that offensive. Having had a bit of a look on Twitter to see what the feeling is, what I actually find offensive is the amount of white people who have seen a little monkey in a suit and immediately associated it with black people where there was clearly no intent from the person who posted it. In all honesty, I think the reaction of some people says more about them than it does Danny Baker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, David said: Having had a bit of a look on Twitter to see what the feeling is, what I actually find offensive is the amount of white people who have seen a little monkey in a suit and immediately associated it with black people where there was clearly no intent from the person who posted it. In all honesty, I think the reaction of some people says more about them than it does Danny Baker. I've got a lot of time for you normally, David, but that's bollocks. The classic "Oh, you see racism? You must be the racist." They're not going off what they believe, they're going off actual, established precedent that racists, frequently and without ambiguity, use references to monkeys, apes, bananas, hoots, etc. to denigrate and dehumanise black people. Calling out racism isn't racism, and to make out that it is is a cheap tactic frequently used by edge-turds trying to get a rise out of people who are rightly challenging racism, and from everything I know about you and the politics you espouse, that is beneath you. I do think Danny Baker isn't a racist, but he has been stupid to a degree that would get anyone fired from their job, and has made a very poor fist of how he's handled the aftermath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, David said: Having had a bit of a look on Twitter to see what the feeling is, what I actually find offensive is the amount of white people who have seen a little monkey in a suit and immediately associated it with black people where there was clearly no intent from the person who posted it. In all honesty, I think the reaction of some people says more about them than it does Danny Baker. Ah, the old “anyone who finds this racist is a racist” flip... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Carbomb said: They're not going off what they believe, they're going off actual, established precedent that racists, frequently and without ambiguity, use references to monkeys, apes, bananas, hoots, etc. to denigrate and dehumanise black people. Calling out racism isn't racism, and to make out that it is is a cheap tactic frequently used by edge-turds trying to get a rise out of people who are rightly challenging racism, and from everything I know about you and the politics you espouse, that is beneath you. Here's the thing mate, the kid isn't black. If this was a newborn that a black couple had do you think Baker would have posted that? Of course not. The Twitter warriors who're all up in arms have dived in head-first not because they've seen racism that needs calling out, but because this is what people do nowadays. And in all honesty, it's shit like this that kind of waters down the proper outrage when someone like Alan Sugar posts what he did. It truly is the worst aspect of social media, and to see someone lose their job so quickly over this is a complete joke and reeks of a knee jerk reaction by his employer. 7 minutes ago, Carbomb said: I do think Danny Baker isn't a racist, but he has been stupid to a degree that would get anyone fired from their job, and has made a very poor fist of how he's handled the aftermath. In all honesty, is there a "right" way to handle the aftermath of something like this? When the torches are lit and the pitchforks are in hand there's not much he could say that wouldn't see him being torn to shreds. You know that. 5 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: Ah, the old “anyone who finds this racist is a racist” flip... No, it's more the old "ah, anyone who finds this racist is a bit of a berk" flip... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted May 9, 2019 Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2019 50 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: No, he’s been stupid and ignorant. He hasn’t lived under a rock his whole life. He must’ve known that people would find that offensive. Man, you have been really aggressively black and white* in your stance on race stuff recently. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. For example - I got annoyed at you, and at the idea of a white guy telling me what is and isn't racist, (especially when it comes to the word paki) and then I immediately felt like I was a racist for thinking that. *it's not a pun ffs, that really is just the most succinct way of phrasing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, David said: Here's the thing mate, the kid isn't black. If this was a newborn that a black couple had do you think Baker would have posted that? Of course not. As I explained a few posts ago, that is irrelevant. In the eyes of racists, mixed kids are the same as black kids, and have endured the same treatment, if not worse on occasion. That a person has any white heritage doesn't stop racists from exhibiting racist behaviour towards them. Trust me on that. Bear in mind that we know that Markle has had racist invective thrown around about her online - that's been quite well covered. 2 minutes ago, David said: In all honesty, is there a "right" way to handle the aftermath of something like this? When the torches are lit and the pitchforks are in hand there's not much he could say that wouldn't see him being torn to shreds. You know that. He could've simply said "I made a stupid mistake posting that picture; it was completely insensitive, ignorant, tone-deaf, and there is no defence for it at all. I apologise to everyone unreservedly." Whether it didn't occur to him or not is irrelevant at this particular moment. He could've referred to that at a later time, if and when he had a chance to discuss this incident in more depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted May 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 9, 2019 24 minutes ago, Carbomb said: It's historically grounded, shaped by racist attitudes. It still doesn't explain to me why otherwise well-meaning people would think that a child of this couple is Black. It's entirely possible, unfortunately, that the awful thought process you described survives vestigially among the thicker elements of society but it's not a million miles away from the reaction of many of the Twitter mob who also seem to have defaulted to that position whilst accusing somebody else of racism, when all he's really guilty of is not being racist enough to view the child as Black so that his 'Oh, this could be racist' alarm didn't tingle before posting his stupid tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted May 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: Man, you have been really aggressively black and white* Ha, blast from the past! I remember when you laughed at the sight of "chimps flinging shit" and Allstar69 (remember him?) reported you to yourself for racism! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted May 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Carbomb said: He could've simply said "I made a stupid mistake posting that picture; it was completely insensitive, ignorant, tone-deaf, and there is no defence for it at all. I apologise to everyone unreservedly." Write this down because it may be a first, I agree with @David. There isn't anything that makes it better. Even after the explanation, apologies, people explaining the joke and given the fact that he has no history of being a racist (a bellend maybe but not a racist) - there are still people all over who won't accept it was anything but outright racism. Nothing changes that. Except a time machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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