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Vice: Dark Side of the Ring

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if you compare Triple H to JBL in how they approached feuding with John Cena as the Top Guy Elect, it's night and day. 

They actually talk about it on the Ruthless Aggression documentary, but frame it as if Cena was the one at fault for being out of his depth and not "ready" for a "cool bad guy" like Triple H.

But JBL through that entire run treated Cena as an existential threat to his championship reign, and his entire way of life. He surrounded himself with back-up, and whenever he needed to, he showed arse and made it look like it was just a matter of time before Cena gave him what was coming to him. The moment Cena jumps to RAW, Triple H is burying him to win smark points, and burying JBL during the same programme. One of those guys knew how to work heel and put the babyface over, the other didn't.

I can only think of three, maybe four, times when Triple H was able to work that old school Flair NWA style heel that he apparently wants to emulate, in terms of just bumping his arse off, selling, and making his opponent look like a threat - Cactus Jack, Batista, Daniel Bryan, and Ronda Rousey. And even for Daniel Bryan it was only really within the match itself, there was still a lot of Triple H having to be the cool bad-ass outside of that - and only made worse when NXT came along and he tried to balance being the heel corporate boss with the babyface internet darling boss of NXT and occasional appearances of the wisecracking DX lad. All of that adds up to someone who comes across like they think they're above the material they've been given, and acting up to show it - much like Kevin Nash and Scott Hall consistently acting unafraid of Goldberg, or any babyface, in WCW, only Trips has never been half as cool as Big Sexy.

On top of that, it feels like ever since Shawn Michaels' "I'm Sorry, I Love You", every big Triple H match was built around him desperately reaching for a moment as "iconic" and significant as that - they became completely drenched in melodrama, and narratively significant gestures. The Undertaker matches were dreadful for it, but there was also his ladder match with Kevin Nash, where Nash gives him the "Too Sweet" gesture and he responds with a crotch chop, and it's blatantly constructed to be this emotional climax of the match, but nobody gave a shit because he just wasn't good enough to hit those notes.

Does all that make him a cunt? Not particularly, it just makes him a wrestler I don't enjoy watching.

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41 minutes ago, Joe Blog said:

If he was heel and he did it to a fully grown adult then no I probably would not think he was a cunt. If it was to a kid then yes. 

Over in the UK in the 1980's when kayfabe was alive & well, you could politely approach the likes of Giant Haystacks or Fit Finlay (who were hated heels) & get an autograph. They would not tolerate rudeness or crowds, but if you approached them in a similar way to your mate Triple H, you would not get the snapped pen treatment.

Haystacks/Finlay etc were not hurting the business by breaking kayfabe. There is a time & a place. Or is it a case of Triple H being a superior heel? 

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I wouldnt say hes a see you next tuesday as i dont know the man. He appears to be big into his family and no one on this forum knows his private life so to speculate on his reasons for marriage ect is absurd. I personally dont like him as a performer and given his position they is a good chance he has been a bitch to people but which top guy hasnt ? its more magnified because of him being on top for so long.

The only thing i will hold against him is the batista program. Here me out , that program was a perfect example of how to elevate and put someone over. The fact HHH did it perfectly shows he can do it, he knows the business. And the contrast with so many people he worked with and "elevated" shows he didnt want to do that on multiple occasions. 

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5 minutes ago, Lord-Mountevans said:

your mate Triple H

He isn't my mate though, I don't know him at all apart from the performer on television and the man who does interviews for his company. This is why I don't have an opinion of him either way.

I tend to make my own judgement on people as I will never likely meet HHH (and if I do I will hide my best pen) I doubt I will ever for much of an opinion either way. I will however break that rule for Jamie Oliver. 

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2 minutes ago, Joe Blog said:

He isn't my mate though, I don't know him at all apart from the performer on television and the man who does interviews for his company. This is why I don't have an opinion of him either way.

I tend to make my own judgement on people as I will never likely meet HHH (and if I do I will hide my best pen) I doubt I will ever for much of an opinion either way. I will however break that rule for Jamie Oliver. 

You swerved my question though. Is Triple H a superior heel to the likes of 1980's Haystacks/Finlay etc or a bit of a cunt by comparison? (adult or child would get the autograph if the fan showed respect & was sensitive of the situation).

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There's an interesting debate to be had here if you two stop being so tedious. It's like watching England and Germany play out a 5-4 thriller in the pub with some nobber and his missus screaming at each other throughout.

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I never watched Haystacks or Finlay so I am in no position to argue the point. If he did it for heel heat then it has got the required result as you were not even there and yet cite it as a reason for your hatred. 

If he did it to be a prick then yeah it is poor form but again hardly deserving of the level of hatred you seem to have for him. 

As Rick just pointed out this is going no where so let's just call it a day. 

Edited by Joe Blog
Tedious

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Compare what HHH did with Cena to how Foley worked with HHH. Foley lost a street fight in Madison Square Garden, then a fucking Hell In A Cell to him interfierence free as far as I can remember. Him and Funk letting themselves have the shite beat out of them in that post Mania RAW to get the new DX over having already lost to them. Losing to him the night after Summerslam 99 to win the heavyweight title. How serious of a threat did HHH seem like til Foley went all in on him around January 2000? I know as a kid I hated the alleged cunt from his heel turn onwards but post No Way Out was when he finally felt, to me, that he had the aura of one of the guys.

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The latest episode of Dark Side of the Ring featuring New Jack was downright uncomfortable to watch.

The man is an animal.

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Came into this chat seeing a number of pages had gone by thinking that last nights New Jack episode must have been great. 

Instead it's still Lord Mount having a moan about Triple H. 

Can we do what we usually do best and move this to its own thread of chat and go back to Dark Side please? 

Anyway back to Dark Side;

New Jack is fucking crazy. The way he talks about tazing Grimes and throwing him off the balcony

"Jack I can't feel my legs" 

"Don't worry you don't need them, bombs away" 

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Just now, Winston said:

The latest episode of Dark Side of the Ring featuring New Jack was downright uncomfortable to watch.

The man is an animal.

I probably won't get around to watching it until the weekend, but out of interest do they talk about the incident with Gypsy Joe at all?  Outside of Mass Transit that's always been the most uncomfortable thing for me, twatting this old geezer around the head with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire.  Stir crazy. 

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They do, a little, but nowhere near as much as the Mass Transit incident or stuff in SMW. 

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3 minutes ago, Shy Dad said:

Came into this chat seeing a number of pages had gone by thinking that last nights New Jack episode must have been great. 

Instead it's still Lord Mount having a moan about Triple H. 

Point taken & Apologies for rattling on.

I watched the latest episode with New Jack. A proper good watch, as all the episodes are, not that i learned very much because i have followed his career & recently bought his book.

What became apparent to me was that New Jack commanded respect & if you were perhaps a rookie or a bit of a fool, things could get very nasty, very quickly. Vic Grimes got a harsh one though! Seemed like a legit attempt at murder off the back of being fearful of his own safety the year before.

More Sandman insanity too, by adding extra colour to his match to take heat off the Mass Transit incident. There is a Jerome Young out there somewhere. I saw a documentary when he was trying to get into acting & apparently his was very professional & a pleasure to be around.

 

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2 hours ago, Lord-Mountevans said:

Triple H & Flair were sat in a public area, having a chat. My friend said that he patiently waited at a distance, when it was apparent the they were on the move, he approached Triple H for an autograph on his programme. Triple H proceeded to snap his pen & say "Sorry i can't because your pen is broke", Flair just laughed in his face.

That's dead funny though.

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It's the bit about how the New Jack story ends and him wanting it to be him in a wheelchair snorting coke and you know it's not hyperbole or bullshit he really wants to be that when he reaches old age. 

I do wish they'd gone a bit further into stuff about him being a bounty hunter and such though, a bit more about his earlier life would have at least let humanised the guy a tad. 

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