Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, gmoney said: Warrior matches were energetic, regardless of whether he was dangerous or not. His promos were entertaining even if they didn't make sense. He was super intense and looked like an insane neon barbarian. Konnan was a dull, lazy berk with trousers hanging around his arse. He was a lot less interesting. I am struggling to see why this needs pointing out Because, as I pointed out before, rick cited Konnan as someone who got over despite not having the qualities supposedly required to get over, and laid out certain criteria that would mean Warrior was also a shitarse too. And, as I pointed out before, this isn't to say that Warrior shouldn't have been over, but rather that perhaps look at the qualities Warrior had to explain why Konnan was over despite being a shitarse. His look, from what I can see, is of a muscular guy who looks like he belongs in a ring. His promos, according to rick, didn't make sense, but neither did Warrior's, so clearly coherence doesn't matter. You found him dull and uninteresting, but clearly others didn't, or he wouldn't have got over. Is there anyone on here who liked Konnan who can explain why they liked him? It might clarify the question as to his popularity. EDIT: On further reflection, based on this discussion, it seems that perhaps having something to compensate or cover for a weakness in their game might be what differentiates them. Inside the ring: Goldberg didn't have great matches and wasn't a polished worker, but he had a lot of energy, and looked believable. Warrior was sloppy, but his energy and speed compensated for that. Outside the ring: Goldberg didn't cut promos, but had an aura and presence, and his catchphrase was short, sweet, and memorable. Warrior was nigh-incoherent, but had physical charisma, and cut his promos with a conviction and energy that mean you didn't have to understand what he was saying. So, if I've got this right, Konnan didn't have the energy or believability in the ring to make up for his sloppy work, whilst his look and shit catchphrases weren't enough to cover his lack of promo ability at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 Warrior did have those attributes - great look, great charisma, fire. Warrior was not a shitarse. Konnan did not have these attributes. He was a shitearse. I hope you understand this now. Peace be with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 Thank you; I edited above as you were posting. The only thing that seems discrepant is that people on here have said he was charismatic, if nothing else. Perhaps this, coupled with his ethnicity, was an explanation for his being over, seeing as he had nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 He must have had something, but I'll be fucked if I detected it. I thought he was shit in TNA as well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Carbomb said: His look, from what I can see, is of a muscular guy who looks like he belongs in a ring. Really depends when we're talking about. At the height of his fame in Mexico, and when he first started popping up in the US, Konnan had a real bodybuilder physique - the name was in reference to Conan The Barbarian - but by the time he was a WCW regular, and especially by the tail end of the company's run, he wasn't in that kind of shape any more, and even he had been, spent most of his time wrestling in a T-shirt and baggy jeans. He also had the worst Irish Whip I have ever seen. In terms of why he was successful...he was a Hispanic star at a time when they were few and far between, and an unashamedly Hispanic star, playing a believable character rather than a cartoonish racial stereotype, and tapped into a Latino hip-hop culture of the late '90s that was probably more current and relevant than WCW generally managed to be. Similar to Vampiro, I guess he was a "right place, right time", tapping into a cultural moment/zeitgeist. That might just be me guessing, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Really depends when we're talking about. At the height of his fame in Mexico, and when he first started popping up in the US, Konnan had a real bodybuilder physique - the name was in reference to Conan The Barbarian - but by the time he was a WCW regular, and especially by the tail end of the company's run, he wasn't in that kind of shape any more, and even he had been, spent most of his time wrestling in a T-shirt and baggy jeans. He also had the worst Irish Whip I have ever seen. Fair enough. Most of the pictures I ever saw of him, he looked pretty well built with a masculine rug. 7 minutes ago, BomberPat said: In terms of why he was successful...he was a Hispanic star at a time when they were few and far between, and an unashamedly Hispanic star, playing a believable character rather than a cartoonish racial stereotype, and tapped into a Latino hip-hop culture of the late '90s that was probably more current and relevant than WCW generally managed to be. Similar to Vampiro, I guess he was a "right place, right time", tapping into a cultural moment/zeitgeist. That might just be me guessing, though. Yeah, this definitely makes sense. Looking at the other Latino stars at the time, the only other one who cut any kind of promo and showed any kind of personality outside the ring was Eddie Guerrero, no? And he was still comparatively young and odd-looking at the time, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 Put me down for the D O Double G as well. I liked his shtick at the time, but looking back it's obviously a case of right place, right time. I'd suggest Billy Gunn, but I don't think he ever really got over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said: I'd suggest Billy Gunn, but I don't think he ever really got over... Someone once said that if Billy Gunn had the body he had in 1998, with the psychology he has now, he'd have been the star they wanted him to be in 2001. He just never had all the pieces in place at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Someone once said that if Billy Gunn had the body he had in 1998, with the psychology he has now, he'd have been the star they wanted him to be in 2001. He just never had all the pieces in place at the same time. I'll agree with that. He just always managed to come across as the other guy in every team he was a part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said: I'll agree with that. He just always managed to come across as the other guy in every team he was a part of. Which, considering he teamed with Chuck Palumbo and Bart Gunn, is a damning indictment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted March 20, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 20, 2019 You'll never convince me Konnan had a single minute of training. Zero timing, blown spots all over the place, weird bumping, stupid moves. It always felt like they were one short and pulled someone's dad out of the crowd. The commentators used to play up his 'unique style', which consisted of being shit. Whoever the usual suspects are in topics about being bad, whether they're clumsy or uncharismatic, he's the only one who truly seemed like he had no idea what he was doing in there. At least Giant Gonzales could do an Irish Whip without falling over and knew where to stand to take a clothesline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 The only good thing Konnan ever did was back during the mid 2000s when my mate's Gran was asked to get him wrestling figures for his birthday and she got him Konnan despite him never watching WCW in his life. He had a button on him where if pressed he went "Yo Yo Yo, let me speak on this". My mate dumped him on top of his cupboard only to find him months later having melted into a congealed mass due to sitting on top of a light fixture for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted March 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted March 20, 2019 He was a bodybuilder rushed into the ring early because he had a good physique, and was on top almost immediately. He was allegedly trained by Mysterio Sr. and the Guerreros, but it doesn't bloody show. If all you've seen of him is his "gentle pat on the back in lieu of an Irish Whip" WCW work, just wait til you see him going for springboards and lucha spots back in his masked days. Painful to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted March 20, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, FelatioLips said: My mate dumped him on top of his cupboard only to find him months later having melted into a congealed mass Much like the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzero Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 David Starr I know he's not hugely over but he's everywhere and is it me or is he garbage I love rev pro but sooner he loses the British cruiserweight title the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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