The MMA general news, events and thoughts thread

[wandshogun09]

Just read on Bisping’s Twitter that Saul Soliz has died. He coached a bunch of big names during the boom period and the Spike TV era of the mid 2000s but I mostly associate him as one of Tito Ortiz’s main trainers and one of his coaches on TUF 3. Seemed a nice enough bloke in everything I saw of him. 

The cause was COVID according to MMA Junkie. Only 55 as well.

Edit - more recently worked with Adrian Yanez. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by wandshogun09

[wandshogun09]

Just read this little article where Shogun names his 3 toughest opponents. Nothing ground breaking but it’s Shogun so I clicked it.

https://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/ufc/mauricio-rua-names-the-three-toughest-opponents-he-ever-fought-in-the-ufc/?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Then I saw this bit;

Didn’t he retire after that loss to Paul Craig? Now it’s ‘retiring in the next year or two’. I know I shouldn’t be surprised at a MMA retirement not sticking but it already seemed a couple of years overdue when he did ‘retire’ late last year. You just know he’s gonna end up getting fed to a Rakic or Ankalaev type as well. There really aren’t any fun legends fights left for him at this point. 

 

[WeeAl]

Madness. Physically, Shogun has looked shot for years. Had some decent wins in that time considering how his body has deteriorated. He's like a steak that's been left on the pan for half an hour longer than intended. How he gets up out of a chair these days confuses me enough, nevermind fight professionally. 

[Egg Shen]

usually, im not one to get into the discussions over fighter pay and all that business stuff but this quote from Meisha Tate is everywhere at the moment...

She's doing something wrong isnt she? 

[theringmaster]

Well to be fair to Tate she was essentially a suburban housewife by the time she decided to return, so she had to find the dosh to enroll full time training again, she wasn't one of the big earners last time round (her biggest payday was UFC 200, $500,000 according to wiki) and although she had that ONE job i very much dealt it was a big payday (like, what did she actually do?).

So 4 years of having 2 kids, buying a house and raising them kids in that house, I can kind of see how her money dwindled. If nothing else she probably took out a loan so it she doesn't have to dip into her pension fund.

[David]

To be fair, she can't really complain about the costs associated with her camp then go on to say:

“It’s very expensive to just facilitate the things that I need to do; travel to training different places. Especially when you have your head coach is remote, is in Spokane, you know? So I fly him down, fly him back. Flying out to Denver to go and train with Trevor Wittman, getting to Southern California to train with Treigning Labs; all the supplements I’ve had to invest in and things like that as well. It’s just, yeah, it’s a lot more expensive than people would think. It’s not as glorious."

Sorry, but if you're not earning a whole lot, it may just be that you can't afford to work with Trevor Wittman. Or to fly your head coach around the country.

If you want to save coin, move to Vegas. There's a fantastic training facility there in the UFC Performance Institute. It has "a state-of-the-art Strength & Conditioning gym with altitude training chamber, medical and physiotherapy centre, wet recovery pools and spa, nutrition and protein bar with fully catered health restaurant, full-size octagon, a boxing ring, large wrestling mat, grappling areas, punch bag training area, athlete sleep pods, a relax room and a state-of-the-art lecture theatre."

So that right there covers your training facilities, recovery requirements, food and drink needs, and it also comes with staff, including strength & conditioning, nutritional experts, and physical therapy. 

I know we all want fighters to get paid more, but sometimes they have to actively work within their budget. If having a head coach based out in Spokane isn't making financial sense you have a decision to make.

[Egg Shen]

to be fair, i dont actually think Meisha was complaining about money, she was simply detailing what her camp cost. 

[David]

9 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

to be fair, i dont actually think Meisha was complaining about money, she was simply detailing what her camp cost. 

Fair point, but the truth is her camp doesn't need to cost what it does. She's choosing to pay out those expenses.

[Egg Shen]

yeh, i think the discussion online got a bit murky. Its turned into another fighter pay discussion when it should simply be "why and how is she spending so much money on a training camp?"

Theres a counter quote from Josh Thomson (think its an old quote though) where he says that if you spend more than 10k on a training camp you are doing something wrong. Guess Meisha didnt get that memo. I mean, if she can afford to do it and shes not complaining i suppose you leave her to it, but its abit of an eye opener.

[Dai]

The most interesting part of the story to me was the 70% tax bit. That seems insane. Must be horrible if thats the rate for the sub $100k fighters too. Imagine your purse is $80k and being left with $24k before any costs like manager/agent fees, trainers fees, travel etc, are factored in. Not much mone left at all for the amount of time spent in preparation and then having to actually fight.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, Tate’s clearly not spending wisely when it comes to training camps. Fighter pay definitely needs improving but that isn’t the example of it like some are trying to make out on social media. This is a different discussion but the taxman is fucking these fighters over just as much as the UFC are. Of course, you have to pay tax. But I saw this quote the other day from Ciryl Gane;

Wounded. Obviously it’s early in Gane’s career and he’s put himself in a position where he’ll hopefully do very well over the next few years. But it’s something a lot of fans don’t take into account when they act like fighters should shut up about fighter pay and be grateful. There’s a lot of cost that comes with it. Most fans look at the fight purses and seem to think that’s what a fighter walk away with.

UFC fighter: Cool, I made 100 grand!

Taxman: Yeah, about that…

Edited August 20, 2021 by wandshogun09

[Cousin Jim Bob]

There is a very good 30 for 30 documentary called Broke on US athletes losing all thier money. Its the tax man that does alot of them in.

 

I have wondered for Europe based UFC fighters like Gane, if say his fight is in America. Do his earnings get taxed there and then again in France ? Gane's quote above suggests he just got hit once but I'm sure I have heard from British boxers saying they got hit by tax in each country. Presumably it varies country to country and state by state in the US.

[neil]

The tax part is either complete bollocks or at best something that will she'll mostly get back later when filing a tax return. If she's really paying an effective 70% tax rate on a mere 200K she should get better financial advisors.

[Egg Shen]

doesn't it depend on where the fight takes place? i read something recently about a boxer avoiding fighting in New York because they wouldnt want to pay the higher rate of tax there.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Egg Shen

[Dai]

I remember reading something someone here posted many months ago about fighters pay. My recollection may be off, but I seem to remember regarding the double tax, I think it was an American fighter fighting in Europe getting the tax here and then over there. There may have even been issues of the US state where the fight is taking place taxing you, and then you have another 'general' tax on top of that too. Was a very interesting article.

In that article it also talked about the managers/agent/team mates fees of 10% here and 20% there. Unlike in that Gane example, they would work out the percentage on the pre tax amount, rather than post tax (in Ganes example the 20% fee becomes $70k).