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wandshogun09

UFC 236: Holloway vs Poirier 2 - Apr 13 🇺🇸

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Adesanya on Helwani’s show going in on Jones;

I like Israel and I loathe Jones but this isn’t going to go well for Israel if they fight, is it? I get both sides here really. I can see why Jones is attaching himself to Adesanya’s name. Coming off that fight with Gastelum, he’s the hot topic so it’s a calculated move by Bones to keep himself at the forefront of the MMA news. I get it. And I think Adesanya might be onto something when he says Jones is looking to catch him early before he gets better. Makes sense. At the same time, I can see why Israel is fucked off with this. He’s just gone to war with Gastelum, came out the winner and it’s the biggest fight, toughest fight and biggest achievement of his career to date. And Jones has kind of taken his moment for himself. Considering Jones himself has pretty much refused to talk about future opponents immediately after his own fights because he wants to enjoy his moment, he knows what he’s doing fucking with Adesanya here.

I can definitely see what Jones is doing though. He’s at a point now where he’s beat everyone and he needs to line up some interesting dance partners. I love Thiago Santos but he’s getting utterly wrecked in July, isn’t he? Jones needs something sexy for down the line. The Brock thing’s dragging on now, to the point it sounds like DC may be rematching Stipe instead now. So who knows if Brock is even an option for Jones. Adesanya is the hottest name within Jones’ weight range, and now he has a belt. It seems too soon but if Adesanya beats Whittaker and becomes the undisputed 185 champion, I can see them doing a Bones vs Stylebender ‘superfight’ to continue this ‘champ champ’ merry go round. 

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I really hope that's not the direction we're heading. I get the feeling that Adesanya cuts very little weight. I wouldn't be surprised if his walk around weight isn't even 205. Israel is lean, wiry and fights so often that I can't imagine he really would be able to balloon up between fights and then make weight so easily. Maybe that's part of why he's able to fight so often, that he's near enough always close to his fighting weight.

It'd be interesting to see Adesanya fight in California, with the way the CSAC release the in cage weights of the fighters following the event, and compare that to Jones weight in the cage Vs Gustafsson in December. My guess is the two numbers aren't close.

Adesanya is just right to be hot about this too. He went to war with Gastelum and now has to fend off questions about Jones, when he knows he has a wrecking machine like Bobby Knuckles waiting for him around the corner. If he gets past Whittaker, then he only has the small task of beating potential challengers such as Jacare Souza, Yoel Romero, Paulo Costa and Chris Weidman. Easy pickings, obviously. 

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"He's a bully. He's a cock. He's a cunt". Never has Jones been so beautifully summed up.

I think that little Jones part shows how intelligent Adesanya is. Not only does he do a wonderful job breaking down why Jones is a terrible person, but he knows what it will take to best Jones in an MMA contest, which is more work. Adesanya with a developed ground game sounds absolutely terrifying.

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I’ll take a massive wait and see approach on Adesanya’s ground game. Fight by fight he’s definitely answering more questions and I’ve got no doubt he’s working hard and improving on the mat. But I’m always sceptical when fighters talk about their ground game improving or give you time frames of ‘in 2 or 3 years I’ll be a monster grappler’ kind of thing. I know that’s not exactly what Israel is saying but you know what I mean. Like when we kept hearing that MVP had this killer grappling game we hadn’t seen yet. Then he got outwrestled by wrestlephobe Paul Daley. I’m always dubious. And especially with grappling because it’s such a slow and gradual process to get really good. Even if Adesanya’s wrestling and Jiu-Jitsu was improving at a ridiculous rate it’s not going to catch up to Jones in 2, 3, 5 whatever years. Then you factor in the size difference. Like you say though, Adesanya seems to have his head screwed on about knowing exactly what his strengths and limitations are at the moment. 

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Yeah. He's not going to be Jacare in 2 years, but having something developed where he can take someone down and smash, say, is another wrinkle to his game that will be mighty for him. An elite striker comfortable on the ground is terrifying. It means he's got more weapons and his opponents have more to think about.

He brought up the ground game in relation to Jones because he knows it's an area he needs to get crafty at, otherwise Jones will probably have an edge there. Adesanya wants to give Jones as little edge as possible, if he can help it.

Edited by ColinBollocks

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i dont think theres much to the Jones/Adesanya thing, certainly not yet, just see that as Adesanya planting some seeds for the future, smart thinking though.

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Yeah it’s not an immediate fight but remember the Jones vs DC rivalry started with an off the cuff smart arse comment backstage. This has already started more angrily than that and you know that now Jones knows he’s got under Adesanya’s skin he’s going to be winding him up all the time. I can see this spiralling and escalating fairly quickly. 

Edited by wandshogun09

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didnt see it mentioned here, and id forgotten myself but Rich Franklin being inducted into the HOF was the forgotten star of his era. Might be be because he limited presence on the MMA scene in the States. Do wonder if his inclusion now might tie into some kind of working relationship with One?🤔

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The thing is, if Adesanya was to fight Jones, it would be a case of a fighter trying "out-Jones" Jon Jones, and that's never going to end well. It seems a lot of MMA fans are drawing comparisons due to them both being lean, long-limbed, and well, black. 

The ease with which Adesanya was clipped by the 4'8 Gastelum suggests that he's not quite at the level of a Jon Jones, or even a prime Anderson Silva. Don't get me wrong, he's good, but I think his push is more to do with the UFC pouncing on anyone who has a bit of star quality.

TL;DR, Bones would wreck him inside three frames.

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Adesanya barely cuts weight to make 185lbs. He'd have to beef up quite a bit to be a threat at 205lbs. 

There is no guarantee that Adesanya will be able to do so. Or at least to great effect.  I remember GSP had great difficulty transforming himself into a full-fledged Middleweight. His frame just wasn't built for 185lbs. Those 15-20lbs can make a huge difference. 

I get that Adesanya is a lanky fucker. But so is Holloway for a lightweight (5ft 11). Yet a 10lbs weight jump clearly took away a lot of his advantages. 

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Yeah that’s my thinking. I really rate Gastelum and the fight was great but on paper Adesanya really shouldn’t have had that many issues against a short, stocky opponent whose striking is much more basic. I was picking Gastelum but I was expecting him to wrestle more. This fight was nearly all standup and Gastelum came close to ending it a few times. Gastelum was even landing a fair bit with his jab which was surprising to me as I thought Adesanya would be way too good with his distance management and slick with his movement for Gastelum to reach with his T-Rex arms. I thought Gastelum would only connect by bulling his way inside and firing his hooks. 

If Adesanya is having those kind of issues with Gastelum, who is really an undersized 185er, I can’t see him having any joy whatsoever against a monster 205er like Jones. Jones is just too big, too smart, too crafty, plus too good of a grappler. 

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3 minutes ago, David said:

The thing is, if Adesanya was to fight Jones, it would be a case of a fighter trying "out-Jones" Jon Jones, and that's never going to end well. It seems a lot of MMA fans are drawing comparisons due to them both being lean, long-limbed, and well, black. 

The ease with which Adesanya was clipped by the 4'8 Gastelum suggests that he's not quite at the level of a Jon Jones, or even a prime Anderson Silva. Don't get me wrong, he's good, but I think his push is more to do with the UFC pouncing on anyone who has a bit of star quality.

TL;DR, Bones would wreck him inside three frames.

Yeah, true. He's a young fighter still making his way up - he doesn't yet have the experience to contend with Jones' sheer natural ability. Who knows, though? Maybe Adesanya has similar talent - his performances show that he "levels up" quite significantly between matches, so maybe he's right that Jones is just trying to get a match with him while he's still not yet the finished article.

The comparisons are understandable, though - out of all the fighters currently in the UFC, Anderson and Jones are probably the closest to him in terms of type: long-limbed, very technical, high fight IQ. Whilst I do think you're right in that there's a slight tendency to compare black fighters with each other, there's a limit; I don't imagine anyone would compare him to Tyron Woodley or Yoel Romero. At the moment, the only white fighter I can think of to compare him to is Darren Till (although there are probably loads of others), and that's just in terms of body type.

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Just now, Carbomb said:

Yeah, true. He's a young fighter still making his way up - he doesn't yet have the experience to contend with Jones' sheer natural ability. Who knows, though? Maybe Adesanya has similar talent - his performances show that he "levels up" quite significantly between matches, so maybe he's right that Jones is just trying to get a match with him while he's still not yet the finished article.

Adesanya is 29 years old though, isn't he? He's not a 23 year old kid who's just learning the game. He's been fighting professionally for seven years, and has only fought eight times less than Jones has. As a comparison, by that stage in his career Jones had just headkicked DC and been banned afterwards, while his next fight would be against OSP the following year.

As I said, the dude looks like a handy fighter, but I've seen nothing really, especially in his last two fights, to suggest he could go into a fight with his biggest advantages (height and reach) being nullified against possibly the greatest on the planet.

Jones has a 4 inch advantage in reach, which is a lot when you depend on your reach to win fights like Adesanya does.

This whole thing reeks of Darren Till to me. The UFC are building this guy up to be the next big thing, and while he's a good fighter, he's not even close to that level going by what I've seen.

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11 minutes ago, David said:

Adesanya is 29 years old though, isn't he? He's not a 23 year old kid who's just learning the game. He's been fighting professionally for seven years, and has only fought eight times less than Jones has. As a comparison, by that stage in his career Jones had just headkicked DC and been banned afterwards, while his next fight would be against OSP the following year.

As I said, the dude looks like a handy fighter, but I've seen nothing really, especially in his last two fights, to suggest he could go into a fight with his biggest advantages (height and reach) being nullified against possibly the greatest on the planet.

Jones has a 4 inch advantage in reach, which is a lot when you depend on your reach to win fights like Adesanya does.

This whole thing reeks of Darren Till to me. The UFC are building this guy up to be the next big thing, and while he's a good fighter, he's not even close to that level going by what I've seen.

Well, you'll know better than I do, but I was given to understand that 29 is still young for an MMA fighter. To be fair, he is still learning the game, as would anyone who makes the step up from the SUPER-RageVenom Masters FCs of the world to the UFC, where the level of competition is something else.

But I take your point; if anything, this probably makes him more comparable to Silva, because I remember some years ago, when people were discussing a Jones/Anderson superfight, there was a fair consensus on here that, regardless of Anderson's level, he was most likely going to lose to Jones simply because of his size disadvantage. The whole "a good big guy will always beat a good small guy" and all that.

There is something to be said for the difference in talent, too, I guess. Jones could fairly be described as a fighting genius, who's virtually undefeated, who soundly defeated his toughest challenger in a rematch, and no-one has ever come up with a blueprint for beating him. Adesanya is "just" very talented.

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There's also the fact, for me at least, that Adesanya hadn't really fought anyone top-level before he fought Gastelum. He's fought six times in the UFC and has an interim title already. Who's he beaten? Gastelum was a good win, Anderson Silva, Derek Brunson, Brad Tavares, Marvin Vettori, and Rob Wilkinson.

He's fought two ranked top ten fighters. 

Let's see how he gets on against Bobby Knuckles, Yoel Romero, Jacare, Weidman, and Costa. That's a murderers row right there that he's evaded on his way to the top. 

What do we know about his ground game? Could he stop a Jacare or Weidman from taking him down and dominating him? Could he deal with the sheer size and power of a Romero? 

A lot of unanswered questions for me before we even entertain the idea of him going anywhere else.

Edited by David

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