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Devon Malcolm

Labour Split / Independence Group

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I'll also add that, for as much as the focus of Labour's increased membership and share of the vote in certain areas was on the youth vote, that wasn't always shown to be the case, it was quite a broad range of people who supported him.

Anecdotally, my father campaigned for Labour in '97 (and presumably before then, it was the first election I really remember noticing), but never voted Labour again after he felt Blair had sold the party's principles down the river. Fast-forward to 2016, and he was attending Jeremy Corbyn rallies. I've spoken to other older Labour voters who saw Corbyn as a return to the party that had deserted them, which, again admittedly is only anecdotal, but was still an appreciable shift. 

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I have to respect them in some ways. On the other side Conservatives fuck over their leader to big up them and their mates as a coup. They know they will keep the safe blue seats. They have walked away, something many past and present mps should have done. 

I also don't think they have fucked their careers. I'm sure they would earn far more after this when they are no longer mps. 

The sad thing is neither party makes me want to vote for them. They both come across as dog shite incoherent mess. Also with both parties leaning to extreme I could not hand them my vote. 

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As a Labour Party activist, speaking to actual voters, these lot can fuck the fuck off. All this does is increase the chances of more Tory hell, but thankfully only by a little bit because outside of the Westminster bubble they are non-entities. It’s better they’ve finally found some balls rather than sniping every chance they got.

The Labour Party is bigger than any individual but Corbyn revitalised a moribund outfit, and i’m genuinely proud of the 2017 manifesto. THAT’s what will make the difference. We live in hope.

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It's frustrating. As much as part of me wants to think "good riddance" to MPs who have done more to hurt Labour than help it over the past couple of years, I'm already dreading the amplified voice they're going to be given. It's such a hollow pursuit - it's hard to believe they're going to achieve anything as a party other than propping up the Tories - but the media thrive on this sort of nonsense and they'll give them the consistent platform to snipe further, speaking out of both sides of their mouths as they criticise the Tories while diminishing and damaging the only actual alternative. So more Lib Dems, basically, but with enough fresh buzz to do damage at a time we can't really afford it.

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If they can pull in a few Tory MPs (highly unlikely) then they could make a few waves during this Brexit madness.

But realistically.. are they going to put up candidates in every constituency at the next general election?  They'll split the Labour vote, and deliver the election to the Tories potentially.  I note that they're actually not even a proper political party, they're just a private company at the moment, so the source of their backing is hidden.

It's just such an odd move, but 2019 is they year that all rules went out the window, so fuck knows.

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1 hour ago, Loki said:

If they can pull in a few Tory MPs (highly unlikely) then they could make a few waves during this Brexit madness.

Rumours circulating 4 Tory MPs may be making the switch. 

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Anna Soubry appears to sharpening her May knives to defect. 

How many would need to leave for the Tories to lose their majority? That could be very interesting indeed. 

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Bit of number crunching here: 

 

The upshot is the most likely result is Angela Smith's seat would become a very close Conservative-Labour marginal and the rest would likely be retained by Labour. In every case the defecting MP would have a slim chance of winning, though combined it's about 50-50 that at least one of them would do so.

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I've read nothing on social media but Labour loyalists banging on that the 'gang of seven' are basically nothing more than Tories and they are helping the Government.

But surely that's not how Parliamantary arithmetic works?

If the new group consistently vote against the Government then how are they helping the Tories? 

Sure it hurts Labour (which is the crux of it here). But unless the group votes with the government in any vote of confidence, surely its disingenious to suggest they are helping Theresa May?

I'm sick and tired of this old line that's been peddled for years by sections of the Labour party that you are either one of them or you're a Tory. It never has, and never will, be as simple as that.  

Faction politics at its worst.

For the record though, I don't believe that Labour is an inherently anti-semitic party and rather, is a label too often thrown around to shut down any question over zionism.

 

Edited by garynysmon

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5 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

I've read nothing on social media but Labour loyalists banging on that the 'gang of seven' are basically nothing more than Tories and they are helping the Government.

But surely that's not how Parliamantary arithmetic works?

If the new group consistently vote against the Government then how are they helping the Tories? 

Sure it hurts Labour (which is the crux of it here). But unless the group votes with the government in any vote of confidence, surely its disingenious to suggest they are helping Theresa May?

I'm sick and tired of this old line that's been peddled for years by sections of the Labour party that you are either one of them or you're a Tory. It never has, and never will, be as simple as that.  

Faction politics at its worst.

 

The media hate Corbyn and will push this as proof that he can't be Prime Minister, their attention is on the 7 now and not on May fucking everything up.  It could damage Labour at the next election, lose them seats and that's how it's helping the tories.  It takes the pressure off.

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You also have to look at perception of the party from their actions. They were happy to ride the wave of Corbyn to keep their seats in '17 but now they aren't, when really nothing has changed within the Labour Party politically since. 

Such negative influence plays only for the good of the Tory party. 

Thankfully, the Tory party look to be going to get hit by this too, so won't actually be able to comment. 

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15 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

For the record though, I don't believe that Labour is an inherently anti-semitic party and rather, is a label too often thrown around to shut down any question over zionism.

I don't believe the party is anti-semitic but there are pockets of anti-semitism within the party, just as there are pockets of anti-semitism throughout society.  Also, using Jew, Israeli and Zionist as interchangeable terms is anti semitic, as is telling Jews to pipe down and telling them they're getting anti-semitism wrong.

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