Royal Rumble 2019 discussion

[PunkStep]

16 minutes ago, mim731 said:

Speaking of which, I'm stunned that Bray didn't re-emerge during the rumble. I was sure that was happening. Very curious to see where they go with him next.

They've completely fucked Strowman, haven't they? During the Rumble they kept saying 'And here's Braun, have you ever seen anyone as unstoppable?'. Unstoppable? He's totally stoppable. Just stick him in the title picture or main event and he's stoppable. Brock & Roman have had his arse plenty of times.

 

5 minutes ago, air_raid said:

I don't talk much about how much I love Sasha because the truth is they fucked up her face run so much it would be a misnomer to say I love her now, rather I love what her character became in NXT and still could be.

Whilst she isn't a particularly good natural face, it was fine during her run VS Charlotte because she was still over with the fans following the jump from NXT, and the Boss thing was going well with the fans. But that was only going to be a short-term thing as she isn't natural enough to carry that role. Long term she's always destined to be a heel (and as you allude to, she shone in NXT in this role) and the slow burn heel turn against Bayley was so simple and could've been well executed, but christ knows why they kept stuttering with them. It completely killed any momentum either of them had (Bayley wasn't helped by hot-shotting her to the title and ending Charlotte's streak early on either). I don't think you can salvage Bayley at all now.

[air_raid]

17 minutes ago, PunkStep said:

(Bayley wasn't helped by hot-shotting her to the title and ending Charlotte's streak early on either). I don't think you can salvage Bayley at all now.

Bayley is so just "there, hanging around" that it's virtually forgotten she was champion. We'll look back in years to come and be reminded that she had that run. Just like Ambrose, as discussed in another thread just now.

[tiger_rick]

In this sea of negativity, I'll tell you what I really, really liked about the women's Rumble. Every woman got a minute or two of spotlight where the announcers talked about who they are, what they've done and why they might win. This should be an absolute given but in this era of people debuting and us being expected to just know who they are or people being in three person groups where no-one ever talks about two of them - this was really useful and made everything feel like a bigger deal than it was.

It's crazy that with 500 hours a week of TV, they didn't interview all of these people before hand (the ones who weren't a "surprise") like in the old days. it shouldn't be down to the announcers to try and catch everyone up 20 seconds before they hit the ring but I thought they did a good job regardless.

Reading everything since yesterday, I'm unsure what expectations anyone went into this thing with or how anyone thinks it could have been any better - barring the obvious answer which is to sign a load of people they don't currently employ.

[BomberPat]

I'm surprised the women's Rumble is getting so much hate - pretty much everywhere else I discuss wrestling it's gone down pretty well. I'd say it was a good match that could have been great, but where all the key "bullet points" were executed well - every big spot and storyline beat landed, and the reaction for Becky entering, and then winning, was completely unmatched by anything else on the card. It should have headlined, because nothing else was ever going to match that pop.

I will admit that the opening few minutes were a slog, just starting out with a bunch of scrubs, and didn't really pick up until Ruby Riott entered. 

The show overall I thought was very good, but suffered from being too long. I probably would have enjoyed the men's Rumble a lot more were it not creeping up to 5am. 

Becky vs. Asuka was match of the night, and Asuka going over clean was the one result I never would have predicted, but that I was very happy with. For all the talk of how Becky was misused before her current push, Asuka has been absolutely fucked around since Wrestlemania, and even her title win was a fluke, so she needed this big win to cement her as a deserving champion, and to make her look good heading into Wrestlemania season. Becky doesn't lose anything in defeat, as her character has never been an unstoppable, unbeatable babyface, and the odd loss doesn't chip away at her credibility.

Tag Title match was the shits. Shane McMahon is dreadful. 

AJ vs. Bryan being in a cooldown match after the women's Rumble was bizarre, but given that it wasn't a clean finish, makes perfect sense. It was the start of a story, not the end of one, so it was the match that made most sense to put there. Erick Rowan is my absolute boy, so I was grinning like an idiot the moment he came out - with his look, he's the perfect fit to be a hipster heavy for Daniel Bryan.

Ronda vs. Sasha felt like a main event match, "big fight feel" and all that. One of the best things about Ronda in WWE is that they tend to present her matches as a fight - the story is always around relative levels of experience, differing styles, can she beat someone bigger than her; the sort of thing that you can instantly buy into, but which WWE tends to shy away from. And, in order to make her opponents seem credible, they tend to at least put in some effort to make them seem like a big deal, rather than the usual women's division booking of "challenger pins the champ in a non-title match, loses at the PPV, is replaced with next interchangeable woman". Sasha Banks absolutely upped her game to fit the bill, and it was great to see.

Finn vs. Brock was a fantastic little sprint, both men brought their working boots. I genuinely thought Finn was winning it after the double stomp.

Back to the men's Rumble...it was pretty dull. It had its moments, and the NXT guys all had a good showing, but Seth Rollins is just the least inspiring possible choice to win. I was hoping for Braun, as a decent Braun/Brock match would be a good 'Mania match. But Rollins? Ugh. He's a step above Ziggler in terms of wrestlers who have been doing the same shit for too long, and who's wrestling does nothing to make me feel invested in them. 
As a winner - it's not setting up a match anyone is clamouring to see, it's not a star-making "he's arrived!" moment because he's already headlined 'Mania, already won the belt, and then was shunted back down to the midcard because he's not the guy. Though Ronda and Becky are probably headlining anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter so much. But in that case, if neither of the men's title matches is headlining, I'd have rather they gave us an out of left-field choice.

[Supremo]

One thing I forgot to mention was how the Women's Royal Rumble match really highlighted the difference between a woman who's ready for the main roster in Nikki Cross and someone who's not ready at all in Lacey Evans.

Nikki had a great showing, got one of the better reactions of the night and looked completely comfortable under the bright lights.

Lacey on the other hand was fucking up almost everything she attempted, falling about all over the place, and if I were her I'd have nightmares about that kip up for the rest of my life. I mean, had she ever actually attempted a kip up before? You'd not think so watching that. She's got no chance.

[air_raid]

4 minutes ago, Supremo said:

One thing I forgot to mention was how the Women's Royal Rumble match really highlighted the difference between a woman who's ready for the main roster in Nikki Cross and someone who's not ready at all in Lacey Evans.

Difference between "wrestled for ages and all over the world" and a "from scratch" project. Only the size of the crowd would be a difference to Nikki and I'm told once you've got experience, that's never a factor when the bell rings, a ring's a ring.

[Accident Prone]

Bloody hell, that was long fucking show. I had to belt it out in two sittings, as well as watching the PPV as well.

Watching half last night and half this morning probably led me to enjoy it more than most of you lot though. That and I'm not getting pelted in the face with WWE product 20 hours per week, so I suffer the fools rather well compared to those who watch on a weekly basis.

The crowd was pretty dire throughout, although live reports say it was loud so it must be the stadium affect. Either way, it was hard to really get into some of the matches due to this.

From what I saw, apart from the Women's Rumble (which was a sloppy botchfest with a few highlights) and the Tag Title match (which I fast forwarded straight to the finish, and caught Shane O's tremendously daft Shooting Star Press) all the matches delivered and held my attention.

Becky/Asuka was good but the lack of proper crowd investment hurt it, same for AJ/Bryan. Really wish those two matches were held in smaller venues as they would've been belters. 

Balor/Brock was FANTASTIC and would've been an easy MOTY contender for me but fucking Renee went and ruined it with her, "We're going to see a new champion!!!" call after Balor hit that trio of topés. It's a habit WWE commentary have done for a long time and does my head in, as it's a stupidly ill-timed misdirection that falls flat on it's face. I actually believed Balor could do it until then and was on the edge of my seat.

I loved Sasha/Ronda. I believed everything they were doing. It had a sense of controlled recklessness that I really liked. The post-match was gravy too.

The Men's Rumble was one of the better Rumbles I've seen in ages. What it lacked in story and star power, in made up for in hard work and in-ring action. There was little dead time here and there was always something going on. Dolph being in the final four was laughable and Mustafa being eliminated by fucking Nia Jax were negatives, but over all it was a lot of fun. Great seeing Pete Dunne and Alisteir Black get some massive shine too. And despite Nia Jax being shite, WWE dipping their toes into inter-gender stuff gets a thrumbs up. A top ten Rumble for me.

As a whole, the show was too damn long but had a consistent seal of quality throughout. If the crowd were miced better and the Women's Rumble tightened (as there was some genuinely good moments hidden away in there), you'd be looking at WWE starting the year strong with a potential Show Of The Year contender.

 

 

[WyattSheepMask]

2 hours ago, mim731 said:

Am I the only one who's quite excited about them pairing up Bryan and Rowan then? I think its a great role for Rowan, and Bryan feels like he's verging on a cult leader with the way his character is evolving, so why not add Rowan in there. The Vegan and The Vintner. Far better than having another pointless Wyatt Family reunion

Straight Veg Society 

[BomberPat]

20 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

And despite Nia Jax being shite, WWE dipping their toes into inter-gender stuff gets a thrumbs up.

In general I'd say yes, but given that the announce team were tittering away as if the entire thing was hilarious and inherently preposterous, I don't have high hopes for them doing it well. 

Someone on Twitter tried to argue that Lawler laughed at Ziggler superkicking Nia Jax because it was her getting her comeuppance, but that's bollocks.

[Accident Prone]

3 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

In general I'd say yes, but given that the announce team were tittering away as if the entire thing was hilarious and inherently preposterous, I don't have high hopes for them doing it well. 

Someone on Twitter tried to argue that Lawler laughed at Ziggler superkicking Nia Jax because it was her getting her comeuppance, but that's bollocks.

Oof, i didn't really notice that. Lawler's a twat though, so I'm not expecting much from him. I'd like to see how this would fare without Lawler/JBL stinking up the gaff if that's the case.

[BomberPat]

Yeah, I think the whole thing would have come across very differently with Graves and Renee on commentary rather than the old-timers. 

[WeeAl]

I've absolutely no interest in WWE starting to do intergender matches and angles. It's one of the things from 20 years ago that ages the worst, and it's also one of the worst things they could copy from the Indies these days. They should leave any and all women Vs men/men Vs women violence on the Indy shows where it belongs. It's so low rent that I can see absolutely zero upside to it.

[BomberPat]

I don't think it's low rent at all, so long as you keep the Attitude Era misogyny out of it.

Was Ronda Rousey giving Triple H his comeuppance at Wrestlemania "low rent"? Would a star the level of Becky Lynch mixing it up with male competitors be low rent, or would it be opening the doors for a wider range of potential matches?

The only issue with doing it in WWE is how they factor in gendered championships, but I'm not expecting them to do it regularly enough for that to be an issue.

[Accident Prone]

Yep, Pat pretty much nailed it there. It's only low-rent if you have the lads squeezing the gals in a sexual manner, commentators shouting "CAT FIGHT!!!" and those spots where the ref gets rolled over. It's all in the way the company chooses to present it. 

There's been some fantastic inter-gender tags in Beyond Wrestling the past few years, and I've seen plenty of brilliant singles as well. Can't see the downside unless the direction is bad.

[WeeAl]

6 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

 

Was Ronda Rousey giving Triple H his comeuppance at Wrestlemania "low rent"? Would a star the level of Becky Lynch mixing it up with male competitors be low rent, or would it be opening the doors for a wider range of potential matches?

 

It was my least favourite part of that match, to be honest. At least for Ronda Rousey it could be believable though. For any of the other women on the roster other than possibly Shayna, to be able to beat up the men, I don't see how it makes any sense at all. Becky Lynch mixing it up with the men would turn me off rather than make me more interested in what's going on.

If the wider public thought it realistic that women with the same training, skill and experience as men, could legitimately compete against men in sports, then we would see intergender sports. We don't though, because it isn't fair. Sure, there will be many professional women much better than professional men at any number of sports out there, but I'm willing to bet that those men don't have the same level of experience, training, skill and ability as those women.