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wandshogun09

MMA is shite: Fury vs Wilder

Who wins and how?   

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I read Fury’s having both Freddie Roach and Ricky Hatton working his corner for this fight. Ben Davison might as well have the day off. 

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The Davison thing is a bit strange, you get the feeling that hes more of a mate to Tyson than an actual boxing trainer. I heard today than John Fury isnt a fan of him either. Tyson said it himself though, if he does manage to win tomorrow night Davison will likely get named trainer of the year.

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Why would Freddie try to stay relavent? Fury went to his gym and Furys trainer asked Roach to be in the corner. I think Roach is above trying to stay relavent. He’s back training Pacman for the Broner fight.

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3 hours ago, Carbomb said:

What's Fury's ability like as regards countering? Usually that's something high-level boxers can do, and it can be a hell of an equaliser against a big puncher, using their own power and momentum against them.

Have you seen him box at any juncture?

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3 minutes ago, PowerButchi said:

Have you seen him box at any juncture?

A bit, mostly clips. Watched the Chisora fight, but don't remember much of it - was rather boring.

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4 hours ago, Carbomb said:

What's Fury's ability like as regards countering? Usually that's something high-level boxers can do, and it can be a hell of an equaliser against a big puncher, using their own power and momentum against them.

If Fury approaches this fight anything like he did the fight with Klitschko he'll come out using his reach (85 inches) and fire his jab at Wilder, looking to try and make him counter. It was that jab and that approach that limited Klitschko to an average of 4.5 punches per round, which is astounding.

Klitschko was smart enough to know that if he tried to counter the jab as Fury wanted him to, it would be playing into Tyson's gameplan, so he found himself stuck in a no-win situation really.

It's easy for Wilder to say that Klitschko "didn't throw any punches," but the truth is that he couldn't. He knew that if he did he'd get countered and would likely get caught. It happened on a few occasions during the fight relatively early on, and that was enough to make Wlad think twice.

Wilder isn't as intelligent a fighter as Klitschko, so there's a better chance that he'll become frustrated and start swinging for the fences. He may connect, but there's a better chance he won't, and he'll end up getting countered, and possibly dropped.

It'll be interesting, that's for sure, but save for the classic "punchers chance" I can't see beyond Fury winning.

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1 minute ago, David said:

If Fury approaches this fight anything like he did the fight with Klitschko he'll come out using his reach (85 inches) and fire his jab at Wilder, looking to try and make him counter. It was that jab and that approach that limited Klitschko to an average of 4.5 punches per round, which is astounding.

Klitschko was smart enough to know that if he tried to counter the jab as Fury wanted him to, it would be playing into Tyson's gameplan, so he found himself stuck in a no-win situation really.

It's easy for Wilder to say that Klitschko "didn't throw any punches," but the truth is that he couldn't. He knew that if he did he'd get countered and would likely get caught. It happened on a few occasions during the fight relatively early on, and that was enough to make Wlad think twice.

Wilder isn't as intelligent a fighter as Klitschko, so there's a better chance that he'll become frustrated and start swinging for the fences. He may connect, but there's a better chance he won't, and he'll end up getting countered, and possibly dropped.

It'll be interesting, that's for sure, but save for the classic "punchers chance" I can't see beyond Fury winning.

Thanks for that, man.

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Fury’s good at everything really. Only thing he lacks a bit is that massive power punch but it’s not like he doesn’t have power either. He’s just not a hitter like a 70s George Foreman or something. But very few are. He’s a pretty complete fighter. The questions for me are can he hit hard enough to keep Wilder off a bit and make him hesitant? And can he negate Wilder’s power effectively for 12 rounds without getting caught clean? He’s the better boxer. That’s just a fact. But there’s more to it than just that. Especially at heavyweight where power is more of an x-factor. We can say he should beat Wilder and Wilder’s just a sloppy slugger but he’s managed to finish the man in the opposite corner 39 times out of 40. Regardless of most of the opposition being cack, it does show he’s got a skill for separating fuckers from consciousness. And it’s not like Fury’s unhittable. And while Wilder has never faced anyone like Fury, Fury’s never faced a long, lanky bomber like Wilder. Klitschko was similar in size but a completely different style. Wilder’s nowhere near the pure boxing skill of a Klitschko but he’s got a freakish frame and can close the distance very quickly. His awkward and chaotic style could make him hard to read because he doesn’t do things in a very traditionally technical way. And the closer it’s getting that’s what’s stumping me more than anything. Wilder’s erratic style could work for or against him. It could throw Fury’s timing off or backfire and Wilder just looks stupid swinging at thin air. I can’t decide which. 

Edited by wandshogun09

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2 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

Fury’s good at everything really. Only thing he lacks a bit is that massive power punch but it’s not like he doesn’t have power either. He’s just not a hitter like a 70s George Foreman or something. But very few are. He’s a pretty complete fighter. The questions for me are can he hit hard enough to keep Wilder off a bit and make him hesitant? And can he negate Wilder’s power effectively for 12 rounds without getting caught clean? He’s the better boxer. That’s just a fact. But there’s more to it than just that. Especially at heavyweight where ower is more of an x-factor. We can say he should beat Wilder and Wilder’s just a sloppy slugger but he’s managed to finish the man in the opposite corner 39 times out of 40. Regardless of most of the opposition being cack, it does show he’s got a skill for separating fuckers from consciousness. And it’s not like Fury’s unhittable. And while Wilder has never faced anyone like Fury, Fury’s never faced a long, lanky bomber like Wilder. Klitschko was similar in size but a completely different style. Wilder’s nowhere near the pure boxing skill of a Klitschko but he’s got a freakish frame and can close the distance very quickly. His awkward and chaotic style could make him hard to read because he doesn’t do things in a very traditionally technical way. And the closer it’s getting that’s what’s stumping me more than anything. Wilder’s erratic style could work for or against him. It could throw Fury’s timing off or backfire and Wilder just looks stupid swinging at thin air. I can’t decide which. 

If Wilder had beaten anyone really of note, even a Chisora or a Whyte then I'd buy into him more. But for me, he's no more a threat than those guys are, and I'd fancy Fury against both of them any day of the week.

I know Ortiz is a name, but he's pushing 40 and he's really the best of a bad bunch. Chisora hits fucking hard, and Fury handled him with relative ease in their fight a few years back.

I know there's the chance of him being caught, but that applies to every fighter. Another thing to note is that rarely does Wilder put someone down and out instantly, he usually puts them down a few times before the fight is over.

Fury's been down, and he knows how to box his way out of trouble when that happens. Even if he gets caught and goes down, I still think he has what it takes to use the adrenalin rush that Wilder will experience, thinking he's on to a winner as he usually is, and tie him up, lean on him, make it ugly until he recovers. 

What then? Wilder's never really had someone go down and get back up to stay in the fight, has he? How does he deal with that?

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2 minutes ago, David said:

What then? Wilder's never really had someone go down and get back up to stay in the fight, has he? How does he deal with that?

It’s not exactly the same thing but this reminds me of the Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas example. Buster had already been taking it to Tyson but when Tyson floored him with that big uppercut and Douglas got up, that really seemed to be when the wheels came off and Tyson started to unravel. It’s almost a curse for the knockout puncher because they become reliant on their power and when it inevitably doesn’t work one time it must be a right headfuck. 

I’d say Wilder is more of a threat than Chisora though. Chisora can hit but Wilder’s finishing instincts are scary. He hasn’t beat many good fighters though. Out of 40 you’re talking 2 or 3 who weren’t bums. It’s like when Goldberg’s streak was padded out with names like Horace Hogan and Scotty Riggs. For me, just Fury’s win over Klitschko is better than Wilder’s 40 wins combined. 

That’s the great thing about this fight though. If Fury wins then it really solidifies his comeback. If Wilder wins he finally beats a top name. 

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From a selfish point of view I want a Fury win simply because Fury vs AJ could be not just the biggest boxing match in British history, but the biggest heavyweight fight in many a year. Can you imagine the build to such a fight? It would be all manner of awesome.

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Well i have had £50 on Wilder inside three rounds. The bookies seem to think Wilder will take Fury out in the middle rounds.

My reasoning for a Wilder victory is based on historical downfalls of other fighters & the mitigating factors behind the defeats:

1, Drugs... Fury got pulled for enhancement & recreational.
2, Inactivity... He has been inactive prior to the two comeback fights.
3, Unconvincing performances... I was not impressed with Fury's last outing & the only other one was over way too quickly.
4, Fluctuation in weight... It takes it's toll (admittedly it is less relevant at heavyweight with no weight limit to hit).
5, Home advantage... Fury has only recently been allowed into The States.

It's the top three points mainly. Really interesting fight, with most saying Wilder by KO or Fury on points. I have never known a fight with only two vastly contrasting predictions.

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Despite the weight loss and confidence he seems to have, im still not convinced that Fury is gonna be what he was when he fought Klitschko. The fact that Fury left Big Bear during camp because he was uncomfortable training there and that they've padded out the corner leads me to believe that things may not be as rosey as they appear for the big man. Im sitting on the opposite side of the fence to some here, i think Fury is gonna have to pull out some kind of masterful performance and avoid all hell to get through this one with a points win and i dont think he has that performance in him at this point.

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I can see a Wilder KO much like Lord Mountevans and his reasoning. 

The Fury corner can either be a move of brilliance or a move which the pundits will say confused matters for Tyson depending on the result. In reality he has only added Roach as Hatton has been with him since his comeback really, and Roach is a man of respect. He wont be trying to yell shit at Fury while Ben is talking. As Roach said in an interview recently, if he sees something that he thinks will help Fury, he’ll pass it on to Ben and then its up to him if he wants to relay it.

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