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1 hour ago, Your Fight Site said:

I remember an episode of NXT having a table-in-the-middle-of-the-ring contract signing, and it not ended in a physical altercation. Was a breath of fresh air.

IIRC, in her relatively short career as GM Paige presided over TWO such events. Which when coupled with the last superstar shakeup in which SD totally had Raw over a barrel, makes her the kayfabe GOAT GM.

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1 hour ago, Statto said:

IIRC, in her relatively short career as GM Paige presided over TWO such events. Which when coupled with the last superstar shakeup in which SD totally had Raw over a barrel, makes her the kayfabe GOAT GM.

Until her skillfully assembled roster was humiliated at Survivors in a manner that Teddy Long would NEVER have let happen on his watch, playah.

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Ranking system and win/loss records is the latest thing being touted by this company. Hope Cody Rhodes is around where Fulham end up, if that's the case. Opinions on this ranking thing?

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Haven't they tried rankings systems in TNA before? If they want to bring back old stuff that won't work, why not bring in the Code of Honor too. Surely nobody wants this shit, or weigh-ins, who gives a shit about those? Just fucking fight.

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8 hours ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

Ranking system and win/loss records is the latest thing being touted by this company. Hope Cody Rhodes is around where Fulham end up, if that's the case. Opinions on this ranking thing?

Win loss records are a great idea but it's how you implement it which would be tricky.

If they aren't going to be a touring circus act doing 300 live events a year like WWE it might work. If your only seeing your world champions wrestle 12 times a year those results will matter. 

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Win/loss records could be fine but they could also be something that are constantly fighting against the story you want to tell at any given time. 

Theres only so many times a match can be against two wrestlers billed as being undefeated etc. Wrestling comes and goes in waves, so maybe not a great way to push someone who’s spent the last year or so earning themselves a 50/50 record or worse that you then draw attention to.

I’m not saying it’s the way to go, but win/loss records in other “sports” work better when you have seasons and the records reset.

Liverpool we’re drawing attention for not losing a game this season, for example.

If wins/losses just keep adding up, too many wrestlers will have too many losses to draw attention to. Also, if they’re doing tours/house shows, will those matches count, too?

Would wins/losses count for impromptu tag matches or triple threat matches? The more I think about it, the more it doesn't work.

Edited by scratchdj

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9 hours ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

Ranking system and win/loss records is the latest thing being touted by this company. Hope Cody Rhodes is around where Fulham end up, if that's the case. Opinions on this ranking thing?

It may be a less than subtle dig at the WWE’a 50/50 booking.

Personally I don’t think you need to be that elaborate, TNA tried something similar with a league table during the Bound for Glory series which was well intentioned but came off as a bit meh.

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55 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

TNA tried something similar with a league table during the Bound for Glory series which was well intentioned but came off as a bit meh.

"Meh" would have been preferable to what actually happened, with multi mans involved and all manner of bullshit and a battle royal worth fifty million points negating the previous three months of important-feeling matches. "Farce" more like it. Devised by a fool and executed by morons.

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Though Cody is pretty bland in the ring, I do think he has a good feel about wrestling. The way he has got himself over is a credit to that. I imagine they're throwing a number of ideas out and seeing what sticks. Like any TV venture they will need 6 months to a year to tweak the format to get it right.

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A simple rankings system could work, though. In tennis, it's clear who the top players are and whilst win/losses are recorded, tennis as a promotion don't offer refer to that.

The punters just want to know that on any current day, is this player supposedly better than the other, and if so, roughly by how much. If a player ranked 50 in the world beats Djokovic, it's an known that it's an upset. Murray was World number 1, but he's looking unlikely to beat anyone of worth at the moment, and his ranking reflect that.

So maybe use wins/losses to work out a rankings, but just leave it as a guide as to who's currently hot and who isn't.

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AEW's strength is on expanding the style of Being The Elite which approaches kayfabe in a slightly different way. I could see a ranking system work within the take on kayfabe they have adopted.

In a scenario where two wrestlers are feuding and the heel wrestler is ranked higher than babyface wrestler. Heel can duck out of fighting as the babyface's wrestler isn't ranked high enough. Good guy has a reason to fight other wrestlers to improve his ranking to finally challenge his foe. I think you could do some fairly interesting stuff with that and it does help build to the big match which seems to be the way they are interested in booking wrestling.

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1 hour ago, boytoy said:

In a scenario where two wrestlers are feuding and the heel wrestler is ranked higher than babyface wrestler. Heel can duck out of fighting as the babyface's wrestler isn't ranked high enough. Good guy has a reason to fight other wrestlers to improve his ranking to finally challenge his foe. I think you could do some fairly interesting stuff with that and it does help build to the big match which seems to be the way they are interested in booking wrestling.

This WOULD be a fairly novel approach to doing wrestling in slightly more of a sporting rivalry fashion. A chase without a title involved and not having to resort to the soap opera of "you hit on my girl" or tag partners broken up - just a good old fashioned "one guy wants to prove he's better than another." New Japan do a lot of really simple builds around one guy just coming to the ring after someone wins a (usually championship) match and throwing a challenge down, or two guys are randomly paired opposite in a tag or six man, things get feisty and BOOM, you have a rivalry leading to a singles match. The simplicity (repetitiveness?) sometimes crosses my mind as being too narrow for the average attention-deficient modern Western fan but there's still room, if handled well and not over-used, to build on the "sports" element of "sports entertainment" without going overboard with weigh-ins or a Code Of Honor type nonsense and to re-establish to the fanbase you want to catch that YES, wins matter.

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I don't like the idea a ranking system. While it allows for some interesting storytelling opportunities, as you watch someone climb the ranks and get closer to a title shot, and is preferable to constantly relying on automatic rematches and "pin the champion in a non-title match" scenarios, it's just fiddly. It's asking the fans to keep track of too much data, and removes a lot of potential stories from the equation. 

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The idea of rankings is good, it just needs a more modern take for it to be presentable these days.

Obviously you want storylines and angles to exist, and rankings can subdue those very important elements. You need to adjust the needle for match types that involve multiple opponents and any other gimmicks.

I've always liked the idea of a single division being ranked, whilst everything else on the show is typical pro-wrestling storytelling. The tag division, usually one of the weaker points of a wrestling promotion, makes a great breeding ground for a ranking system and gives people a reason to invest where there isn't a story. Match types like three ways and four ways should only be used when there is a tie for points at the top, with the winning team getting the title shot.

Keeping the rankings based in the tag division allows for the typical zaniness wrestling to carry on elsewhere whilst giving some variety and flavour to the show and not overdoing the whole numbers game. This is pro wrestling not baseball, after all.

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The way CHIKARA do it is that a win earns you a point, and getting three points grants you a title shot, but a loss resets your points to zero. Some matches are specifically exempt (usually if they're for another championship, or part of a tournament), and in a four-way eliminator, each person you pin counts as a win. 

That's the closest to a working "ranking" system I've ever seen in wrestling. Anything else becomes fiddly and over-complicated, because you start having to account for DQs, count outs, injuries, Dusty Finishes, and every other wrestling trope that came into being because bookers needed to work around any kind of legitimate trappings.

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