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5 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

Mind you, doesn't the WWE have an element of punditry with those shite pre-shows they do with Booker T, Lawler etc?

The problem is that's too self-contained. It's not produced enough so it ends up with just Booker rambling rather than trying to get any element of the story over and it's completely separate to everything else so it serves no purpose. Compare that to that brilliant post-Smackdown show which had an element of Bryan and Young being pundits but featured the wrestlers themselves, gave them opportunities to improve their character and stories and allowed for storyline development and match-making. That was a great concept.

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55 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Well, for one, they're not going to have Batista, Goldberg and Ryback as heavyweights, and they may not even have Kenny Omega as middleweights.

All weight divisions - or divisions of any kind - achieve in wrestling is to impose needless limitations.

Because the first step in putting together an intriguing wrestling match is to put two wrestlers together that, either through their size, their characters, or their fighting style, makes the audience ask, on some level, "how will these two interact?" or, in many cases, "how could X possibly beat Y?". It's that question that fundamentally sells a wrestling match.

Same goes for stuff like @HarmonicGenerator's suggestions - they all sound well and good as a thought experiment, or an approach to booking an indie promotion marketed at workrate nerds, but it's insane to book a wrestling promotion aiming for mass appeal by removing every tool that allows wrestling to tell stories. By throwing in additional referees, instant replays, reversed decisions, you're adding a mock sense of "legitimacy" that no one will buy into because no one believes wrestling is legitimate, at the expense of storytelling tools that have served wrestling well for a century. There's a reason referees miss tags, make incorrect calls, or don't have decisions reversed, and it's because it's what best serves the stories pro-wrestling tells.

 

There are things wrestling can, and should, borrow from the world of legitimate sports (I like the idea of the Match of the Day style structure and punditry, that's largely how I would want to present TV wrestling), but not at the expense of everything that makes wrestling unique, and makes wrestling work.

Interesting.

Just because it's a work doesn't mean you can't create some sort of pseudo legitimacy. Hell, the fact that it is a work would mean although there were limitations with having the weight classes you could create a lucha  goes through the weight classes and gets his chance against the big monsters story. 

Your basically saying because it's fake just cabaret act it by which I mean make it hokey cos that's all people know.

Although NJPW has some sort of pseudo sport legitimacy and that seems to work doesn't it. 

 

Edited by BigJackTaylor

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The weight classes idea comes up frequently, and although I like the idea it can too easily fall apart if used poorly. It's basically an advertising tool to give viewers an idea of what to expect on a card without being familiar with the wrestlers themselves. It needs to be as minimal as possible though. I'd stick to Heavyweight for the bigger boys, Cruiserweight for the smaller (and cruiser- sounds better than light-), and Catchweight for a bout between a mix of weights. You don't need set divisions or (gulp) league tables, but for those first few weeks, it could help establish the roster in the eyes of new viewers. This also depends on the roster being honest with themselves - the Bucks and Omega are nowhere near Heavyweight.

Further detail could be added by titling matches to show their place in the scheme of things eg Exhibition for your 'filler' bouts, Competition for those that count towards a (kayfabe) ranking or other qualification system (number one contender etc) for title shots, and Title for the big belt matches. Well managed, you've got storyline possibilities, spinning on existing tropes, like the heel who wins the belt then keeps putting off title defences by having his manager sign for Exhibition bouts instead - "I'm number one contender and you owe me a shot!" "I'll see when I can fit you into my *busy* schedule, son."

Weighins can jog on for the most part, but again, it's down to smart use of angles. A Cruiserweight champ who gets complacent and loses the belt because he doesn't make weight. The dominant champ on the border line who has to choose which division to go all in on. The double champ who risks burnout defending both belts between divisions.

If they're going to go live, they've got to be smart about it. The BTE work shows they know how to put entertaining pretapes together, so I think they should lean into that across the roster, recording skits, intro angles, "day in the life of"s, special visits, etc to be spliced into the live feed for home viewers, while the live fans get a quick squash or promo for time. That footage could even be used for introducing future onscreen talent or special online or on demand only content.

Fuck it. Gimme Cody's phone number.

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2 minutes ago, BigJackTaylor said:

Interesting.

Just because it's a work doesn't mean you can't create some sort of pseudo legitimacy. Hell, the fact that it is a work would mean although there were limitations with having the weight classes you could create a lucha  goes through the weight classes and gets his chance against the big monsters story. 

Your basically saying because it's fake just cabaret act it by which I mean make it hokey cos that's all people know.

Although NJPW has some sort of pseudo sport legitimacy and that seems to work doesn't it. 

 

If the lucha goes through the weight classes to get his chance against the big monsters, doesn't that negate the point of the weight classes because you'd be ignoring them? Or does the lucha guy have to gain 100 pounds to complete this angle?

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According to Meltzer, Omega is a certainty for AEW. Also, the Bucks turned down main event level money from WWE, BTE on the Network and an escape clause in the first 6 months of their contracts. Two major cable stations are negotiating for a live weekly two hour show.

 

Tony Khan isn't just funding AEW,  he'll also be the Head of Creative, in the Vince role.

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AJ Styles level, apparently. Presumably each, not half an AJ Styles per Buck.

Edited by BomberPat

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18 minutes ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

If the lucha goes through the weight classes to get his chance against the big monsters, doesn't that negate the point of the weight classes because you'd be ignoring them? Or does the lucha guy have to gain 100 pounds to complete this angle?

If the lucha is that good it doesn't matter surely.

Like Manny Pacquiao beating Antonio Margarito at Light Middleweight when he was half the size.

If your good enough or over enough in wrestling terms you go up.

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Latest SCG Radio is up, posting it here just in the spirit of the topic, where we break down Wrestle Kingdom 13, talking all the matches, the winners and losers, the greatness of Hiroshi Tanahashi, Switchblade as top heel, issues with the show, the outlook on the future and the big stories coming from the landmark event. From there, we discuss the apparent departure of Kenny Omega and the Elite, the impact it has, and the possibilities behind All Elite Wrestling. A look at the rally, the roster and whispers around the television deal are gone into, as the insanity of 2019 begins in grand fashion. A fun show, check it out and let us know what you think! 

https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/download/hh3k9g/SCG_Radio_145_-_Wrestle_Kingdom_13_and_All_Elite_Wrestling.mp3

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9 minutes ago, BigJackTaylor said:

If the lucha is that good it doesn't matter surely.

Like Manny Pacquiao beating Antonio Margarito at Light Middleweight when he was half the size.

If your good enough or over enough in wrestling terms you go up.

Not sure you understand how weight works?! 

Edited by thicko

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31 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

AJ Styles level, apparently. Presumably each, not half an AJ Styles per Buck.

Pretty harsh to say Styles is only worth one or two Bucks.

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Right, I'm so pumped for this! Hotel room reserved in Vegas (went with the Hard Rock as I suspect thats where Starrcast will be), flights picked out, time off work booked, now I just need to wait for tickets to go on sale! Probably my only chance to do somethng like this as I don't think I can dodge the whole 'kids' thing with my wife much longer......

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MPDTT said:

Probably my only chance to do somethng like this as I don't think I can dodge the whole 'growing up' thing with my Mum much longer......

 

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