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1 hour ago, air_raid said:

Nothing says "new kid on the block" like the Dudleys 10 years past their best vs the Nasty Boys 20 years past their best.

That feud wasn't completely awful - the promos, at the very least, were pretty good.

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Dave Meltzer is a great wrestling historian and his knowledge of the subject is almost second to none. On that front he's an almost invaluable resource. But I've never paid any attention to his ratings or opinions on wrestling as I don't particularly like 45 minute long Japanese matches.

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3 hours ago, air_raid said:

Nothing says "new kid on the block" like the Dudleys 10 years past their best vs the Nasty Boys 20 years past their best.

Two words: penis cage. 

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1 hour ago, Devon Malcolm said:

Dave Meltzer is a great wrestling historian and his knowledge of the subject is almost second to none. On that front he's an almost invaluable resource. But I've never paid any attention to his ratings or opinions on wrestling as I don't particularly like 45 minute long Japanese matches.

He's the boy who never grew up. His tantrums on twitter if you call AEW a t-shirt company are legendary.

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14 hours ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

He's the boy who never grew up. His tantrums on twitter if you call AEW a t-shirt company are legendary.

Which is hilarious considering how often he uses how many t-shirts they've sold as a metric.

He's been arguing for the past couple of days that they're the second biggest promotion in North America because "they would sell out in any city". Which may or may not be true. But how can you realistically argue a promotion that haven't run a single show being the second biggest? 

He's risking whatever credibility he has left if this all goes tits up.

 

I don't even think he's on AEW's payroll, I just think it's the first time that a somewhat important wrestling promotion is reflecting his tastes in wrestling, and that he's always been biased towards those wrestlers who are on his side.

As a wrestling historian I put him in a similar category to Jim Cornette - clearly an expert on the subject, but the more they show themselves as missing the point on certain aspects of modern wrestling, the less I'm inclined to trust their accounts of its past. With Cornette it's a failure to recognise how the industry has moved on in terms of in-ring product and the nature of kayfabe, with Meltzer he seems almost completely blind to the importance of angles and storytelling in putting together a "good match".

Edited by BomberPat
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I think it’s unfair to Dave to say that he’s blind to the importance of angles and storytelling. One of the things he praised Omega/Okada4 for was the 18 month build, the constant call backs to their previous matches and the emotion and importance behind Kenny ending Okada’s record setting reign.

Dave isn’t blind to storytelling, it’s just that he prefers his stories to be told in the ring for the most part, as opposed to backstage segments or 10 minute promos. It’s really just a matter of taste.

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That's a fair point - but I do think the "star rating" system is something that's a bit of a holdover from the days of tape trading when you largely would be watching these matches devoid of context.

To give a match a rating out of four, or five, or seven and a half, rarely takes into account the role that months or years of build or storytelling would have in contributing to it, nor does it take into account its position within the card its own - we've talked in the Wrestlemania thread about not wanting certain matches to main event because the crowd would be exhausted by then, but matches in different positions on the card serve different purposes generally. Whether you're there live or watching taped makes a difference, too.

To use an old example, that he gave Hogan vs. Andre -4 stars tells me that he's missing the point. That he thinks Gargano vs. Cole might be the best WWE match of all time tells me has a very particular taste, and if we accept that about his judgments of wrestling today, we need to consider it when looking at his accounts of wrestling history as well.

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