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MPDTT

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I guess I'm a bit jaded because of how people thought TNA was going to be this big second company and challenge WWE and move to Monday nights etc and look what happened there. We've been expecting their death for many a year now.

AEW needs to be done right. These things don't happen overnight and WWE has an entire history behind it. AEW needs to be its own success before even considering going up against the biggest (and to many the ONLY) wrestling company in the world.

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I'm not buying this whole "They have a billionaire" thing.  Daddy Khan might be a billionaire but he isn't going to be spending that billion on it.  For context, ROH is owned by collective billionaires, that hasn't translated into making it dining at the same table as Vince.  The McMahons made their money through wrestling, the Khans didn't.  I can't see them splashing their cash massively on this at all.  Sure, small change to them is still a huge amount.  But small change is all they'll achieve on the stage of wrestling.

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32 minutes ago, MPDTT said:

Well, we can reasonably believe the following (for now I'm treating what Dave Melzer says as "reasonable belief"):

- They have a billionaire financing it, who wouldn't likely get involved to create another indy promotion (not ambitious enough)

- TV offers on the table (according to Meltzer). Now if thats true, there must be a strong business case / strategy thats been presented

- They are actively signing talent to multi year deals - which means serious money already committed by the Kahn's.

 

It all seems rather bullish! (Using a trading term)

 

I'd take whatever Meltzer says with a pinch of salt when it comes to this lot.

Its quite clear from his writing that he loves this kind of stuff, he seems to be more into the current scene than at any time since I've been reading the Observer so there may be an element of wishful thinking at play here.

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7 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I'm not buying this whole "They have a billionaire" thing.  Daddy Khan might be a billionaire but he isn't going to be spending that billion on it.  For context, ROH is owned by collective billionaires, that hasn't translated into making it dining at the same table as Vince.  The McMahons made their money through wrestling, the Khans didn't.  I can't see them splashing their cash massively on this at all.  Sure, small change to them is still a huge amount.  But small change is all they'll achieve on the stage of wrestling.

Agreed. Khan's ownership of Fulham FC hasn't exactly gone great so far. OK, they're back in the Premier League but they're really struggling and have spent relatively little when compared to several other teams in the league. If All Elite Wrestling does well then great but I'm not expecting them to be much competition to WWE. At least yet anyway.

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Just now, LCJ said:

Agreed. Khan's ownership of Fulham FC hasn't exactly gone great so far. OK, they're back in the Premier League but they're really struggling and have spent relatively little when compared to several other teams in the league

From a business sense, they are in the richest league in the world and quite honestly, I'd say that's the most important thing to him.  It's a business investment, something that a wrestling company won't be able to replicate.

Where I hope AEW do change things is the treatment of employees.  I know WWE spend a lot on rehab and help for its "Contractors" but regarding workers rights, it's shocking.

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42 minutes ago, Supremo said:

Poor Goldust though. Not since AJ Lee was still there when CM Punk left has there been such an awkward employment situation.

I don't think it's much of an issue at all. Cody's been pretty public about how, prior to the Rhodes Brothers tag team, he and Goldust were never really close (there's 16 years between them, and Dustin would have been on the road for most of Cody's childhood).

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28 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

I don't think it's much of an issue at all. Cody's been pretty public about how, prior to the Rhodes Brothers tag team, he and Goldust were never really close (there's 16 years between them, and Dustin would have been on the road for most of Cody's childhood).

He seems pretty proud!

 

 

https://twitter.com/Goldust/status/1080301161738059776

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The insistence that this new venture is going to "rival" WWE is the bit that worries me.  If you look at the history of wrestling promotions since 2000, it's clear that even with TV, established stars and some internet buzz, there's a ceiling to what a new promotion can generally achieve even if it builds sensibly over years, and that ceiling is considerably below the bottom of WWE's marketplace.

If Daddy Khan has been sold on an investment into a potential WWE style business, then he's the latest in a series of money marks who've sunk some change into the promise of wrestling.  I don't get that impression per se, but the leap from an (admittedly impressive drawing) single show to a tv series is in itself a huge proposition let alone something as big as ROH or TNA even.

At this stage I don't think WWE can ever be seriously challenged again.  Their only competition is themselves, and that's why they've been diversifying their product out into so many brands in an attempt to create some internal market.

I hope this AEW proves me wrong but if they create another super-indy with tv, another solid home for full-time pro wrestlers, then they'll have done immensely well.  Anything above that is a pipe-dream.

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36 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Where I hope AEW do change things is the treatment of employees.  I know WWE spend a lot on rehab and help for its "Contractors" but regarding workers rights, it's shocking.

This is something I've always hoped, but I'm dubious it'll start happening now. Sure, competition can have a tendency to improve workers' rights, but it depends on who's employing them, and also the culture of the workers in question. When things were at their most competitive between the WWF and WcW, nothing really changed in terms of rights, because both companies were owned by classic yellow-dog American capitalist entrepreneurs. In fact, I reckon Turner would've been worse than McMahon, because of the Southern influence.

Another thing that I find myself wondering about is how Khan's experience of having to deal with football players and sports agents might have affected his attitude towards the workforce. Will he be sick of "player power", and decide to take advantage of wrestling's lack of labour union and militancy to get his way in a different sphere? I don't know much about the guy, but generally speaking, I can't think of many billionaires who've demonstrated any particular respect for workers' rights or welfare.

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I'm still in a very wait and see mode, It's hard to judge the thing before we learn more.

I do think though there is huge potential for this to be something incredibly entertaining to watch. Not only the actual show, there is obviously a wealth of talent available to make it work from an in-ring stand point and once you couple that with reasonable funding from Khan to nail the production side your on the right track, but the thing The Elite do best is hype.

The build to All In was so much fun, BTE has been incredibly successful for them, and things like the Hot Topic deal and the quantity of merch they shift shows you how much it's been paying off for them.

Announcing on New Years I think was really smart. They get everyone talking for a couple days but there are no answers because all the YouTube guys, wrestling journalists, and shows where fans can sees/speak to them are off for days until Wrestle Kingdom. They keep all eyes on them.

Even little touches like not following Kenny and Marty from the AEW twitter are nice little talking points that keep everyone guessing. 

So yeah it's obviously smart to stay realistic. There are a bunch of other promotions that exist now and did then who thought they could take on Vince and failed. But I'm going to allow my self to be optimistic and hope AEW can show that may not be the case forever.



Also @Loki I saw your post after. I totally agree with what you say about actually challenging WWE. It's nice to think though that there could be another company that gets some level of success akin to WWE. Main stream attention, high production values, large scale shows and touring. If I was going by EWR I'd say it's time for another promotion to go Global, even if it never really touches WWE.

Edited by Brudaker
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1 hour ago, Carbomb said:

If the Bucks' booking is anything like their wrestling, this'll be a Wrestling Society X-style car crash. Doesn't fill me with anticipation, to be honest. I agree with BomberPat's sentiment that we don't need any more spot-style promotions.

This is a key, really. If it presents itself as just another indie promotion then they can chuck all the money in the world behind it and it won't make much of a difference. If they really and truly want this to be a contender to the WWE, and nothing that Rhodes or anyone directly involved with it has said has actually suggested that's what they're even aiming for, then they have to try and appeal to the casual fan.

In 2019, there's absolutely no way you can compete with WWE by just appealing to fans like MPDTT. Otherwise you're just another ROH or PWG. And what's the point of that when there are so many of these promotions in existence already?

Then again, if they do go the route of trying to catch the attention of lapsed wrestling fans, those who pay occasional attention to it, or those largely disinterested in wrestling, then they're essentially another WWE. Which isn't what the vast majority of enthusiasts for this promotion want because it will be 'too WWE'. Rock and a hard a place. I think this is doomed to fail from the start, regardless of money and TV.

People keep criticising WWE under a catch-all damning tone yet I don't understand why. You have NXT, which is basically an indie promotion under a WWE banner. So much of the top indie talent are on it, many of whom are doing the sort of stuff that got them a following in the first place. You also have 205 Live and for fans of Shimmer and that, they're now doing some more interesting stuff with female wrestlers. WWE is so big now that you almost can't just say it's had a 'bad year' as there are too many elements to it. You can say Raw had a bad year, but didn't Smackdown have a great one?

I just question now if you do actually need a big promotion to challenge WWE as there's so much going on under their banner, especially now with their encroachment into UK wrestling. That will surely see them look into Europe, Latin America, Japan and other territories before long.

Rhodes seems a smart guy and he's also someone who clearly respects all aspects of wrestling. He's familiar with the WWE style, he has a link to the traditional past through his dad, and he's obviously an 'indie darling' right now. So he is actually the perfect person to push forward with something like this. When this fails, and I think it will, it won't be through a lack of effort on his part. It's just the landscape is against him now.

MPDTT can say that positivity trumps negativity all he likes, but there's a complete lack of realism amongst many of those, like him, about what is likely to happen with all this. This desperate need to seek out an alternative to the WWE makes little sense these days considering what they offer under their banner and what is available out there. He keeps throwing around "game changer", that oft-used phrase that is bandied around these days by anyone who sees something that excites them but is desperate to push it forward as being something more than just something they like.

It probably isn't. Aside from people coming up with new moves and gimmicks, wrestling reached the limit of its development years ago. I don't think there won't be any more game-changing from now on. But by all means quote reply this post in 5 years time when AEW has beaten Raw 84 weeks in a row in the ratings.

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The best thing about this so far is that the interest in it and speculation has generated some great discussion and some top posts. Long may that continue.

I'm almost certain that whatever this turns out to be won't be for me. Like All In. Appreciate people doing something but not to the point where I'm arsed to watch it. Wrestling in the US needs a shot in the arm and hopefully this is it. Still very early days though.

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What we know:

Some wrestlers have worked a money mark into investing in their wrestling company.

They have "tv deals" on the table.

There will probably be some Japanese and Mexican wrestlers. 

They have initials and a fancy logo. 

They have so far presented themselves as an "alternative."

They had a really (really) successful super show.

At the moment they're more Ian Indy Wank thread than a premier league club of wrestling. 

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John Pollock weighs in about the more immediate ramifications of AEW starting up;

Quote

 

The immediate ramifications to the industry are the creation of another viable U.S. promotion for talent to earn full-time work. By securing television that pays the group, it creates an arms race between the WWE, Ring of Honor, and All Elite Wrestling to secure talent to exclusive contracts. The next tier of promotions will be Impact Wrestling and MLW, who each have television deals, albeit without strong penetration in the country. Those are groups that are going to be vulnerable as the big three set out to bolster rosters and those would be obvious places to recruit from.

The non-televised groups such as Pro Wrestling Guerrilla, Game Changer Wrestling, AAW, and Beyond Wrestling (who will be running a weekly two-hour show online in April) among others are going to be forced to be ahead of the curve scouting new talent and becoming the entry point for undiscovered performers. There isn’t a shortage of great talent worldwide and this could create an opening for talent in Mexico for further U.S. exposure, the issue will be how long these groups will have access to a performer that breaks out before they are snatched up.

 

 

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