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18 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

@WeeAl Something to do with his comic book/Warrior University wasn’t it? Like you say, if it wasn’t that it’d have been something else. Although Shawn vs Warrior intrigues me. Even if it most likely would’ve ended up with a sulking Shawn turning it into a pisstake oversell-fest like the Hogan match years later. Still would’ve been a cool match to watch as a one off, just because they were so different and Shawn probably could’ve dragged something good out of him like Rude and Savage did a few years earlier. It’s a weird one to think about though. 

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Ah, Survivors '89. Good times. 

Yeah I think you've nailed it there. '91 was the contract dispute where he holds Vince up for more dough. '92 was the drug bust. '96 was this comic book carry on. It would have been a fascinating match indeed. Shawn would have had enough stroke to not get beat in thirty seconds, but not enough to go over, I don't think. You know what? Shawn loses his smile 6 months early. Warrior Vs Vader for the belt at SummerSlam. Warrior goes over in a stinker. 

The next night he demands a bigger contract, Vince says yes but knows what he's like, so threatens him with Goldust and a bar of soap in the shower if he doesn't drop the title to Vader at Mind Games. Shawn recovers from his life threatening knee injury and beats Vader for the belt at Survivors '96. 

No Sid. 

I wouldn't want to live in an alternative 1996. 

Edited by WeeAl
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Sorry to bump this thread but I was skimming through KOTR 98 for some reason earlier and naturally got to thinking about the Undertaker vs Mankind series. I guess my thought is ‘what if’ Foley ne

Using nothing but pure sense and logic, I conclude the following.  - Austin remains in the Triple Threat match at Survivor Series and wins the title.  - He goes on to play a role of antagoni

Age is secondary to perception. Boss Man was a relic of a bygone age when he turned up in 98 yet was 35 while Austin was 34 at the time.

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Glad this thread got bumped. I was wondering what would have happened if Bret and the foundation had stayed with the WWF in 1997. No screw job obviously.

I'd guess either Bret never drops the belt to Shawn but then no idea what to do with him in 1998. He would likely have never taken that bump at the rumble so wouldve stayed active and maybe died from an overdose at worst. At best he might have been Austin's first opponent meaning Rock Trips and Foley are kept down the card for longer. 

I see Shawn though taking the belt of Bret in late 1997 and Bret finishing his feud with Austin post mania. We might have got a DX/Hearts match at mania in addition in some capacity but by 1998 I reckon Davey and Bret or Shawn would have gone over to WCW. I expect Taker and Kane would have stayed a little lower down the card too.

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Meltzer says Vince pitched an outline to Bret to stay where he’d drop the title to Shawn at the December In Your House in a four way with Undertaker and Ken Shamrock, lose to him in a ladder match at the Rumble, put his career up the next night on Raw and win the belt, then drop the title at Mania XIV to Steve Austin before relaxing into semi retirement and an office job at a reduced salary.

As you can tell, he wanted Bret off the books.

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What if Heyman's extended stable of Lesnar, Cesaro and Curtis Axel had worked out? Who else could have come in? Do you have him mange a tag team to get a full on Dangerous Alliance type thing going on? Stick him in charge of a diva like Paige or AJ Lee to continue the Punk association? Doe this pave the way for the introduction of more managers and valets?

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29 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said:

What if Heyman's extended stable of Lesnar, Cesaro and Curtis Axel had worked out? Who else could have come in? Do you have him mange a tag team to get a full on Dangerous Alliance type thing going on? Stick him in charge of a diva like Paige or AJ Lee to continue the Punk association? Doe this pave the way for the introduction of more managers and valets?

I don't think Punk and AJ were ever acknowledged as a real life couple on TV were they? My viewing waned in the spring/ summer of 2012 between Mania and Summerslam so I don't know how it all ended with the Punk, Bryan, Kane, AJ love square thing but that was a year earlier than this too. Perhaps I would have had an extra guy to tag with Cesaro, possibly in hindsight Tyson Kidd as I really enjoyed their team about a year later. As for women, maybe a bigger performer such as Tamina or even bring in Kong again and have them used more in a female bodyguard for Heyman type roll when Lesnar isn't around. Infact I would ultimately keep Lesnar as separate as possible and very rarely have the rest in the ring with him and Heyman, maybe use them as backup in the match against Punk at Summerslam and then  have them altogether as a team at Survivor Series. 

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What if Austin doesn't go to Vince asking to turn heel in the build up to WM 17

Austin has to win the title because its in Texas and Rock is going to film Scorpion King. Triple H makes sense for being the No. 1 contender after winning 3 Stages of Hell but you need him to have momentum so he has to beat Undertaker right. That means the Streak ends before it even has a chance to become a thing. 

Also, if Austin is a face when the Invasion happens who leads the Alliance. Stephanie is the ECW owner, Trips has to take his wife's side. So he is the leader of the Alliance. 

 

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I don’t think the world needed another round of Austin v HHH so soon. In my head Angle beats Benoit more decisively and starts a run against Austin as they’d only really had one high profile match, for the WWF title on Raw which only really served as a backdrop for Hunter’s return.

Although at least if Hunter HAD beaten the Undertaker, they wouldn’t have had to nonsensically give him the I title as penance, then massacre Jeff Hardy over said same belt.

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On 11/24/2018 at 2:52 PM, Abe_Knuckleball_Schwartz said:

What if Summerslam 1992 emanated from Washington DC instead of Wembley? 

Would England eventually still receive a big PPV if the WWF had not of ventured over here when they did? 

Would the landscape of the WWF change with the original rumoured matches, Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Warrior vs. Shango etc. or would it have just been the same. 

 

.Q1. Summerslam 1992 Card (Washington DC option)

Dark Match: Duggan & Bushwhackers Vs The Mountie & The Nasty Boys

Dark Match: Crush Vs Skinner

1 Tatanka Vs Rick Martel

2 Legion of Doom Vs Money Inc.

3 Bret Hart Vs Shawn Michaels (WWF IC Title)

4 British Bulldog Vs Repo Man

5 The Undertaker Vs Kamala (Casket Match)

5 The Natural Disasters Vs The Beverley Brothers (WWF Tag Title)

6 The Ultimate Warrior Vs Papa Shango

7 Nailz Vs Virgil

8 Randy Savage Vs Ric Flair (WWF Title)

.Q2. Based on my own memories from the time, I think Summerslam'92 was definitely a 'now or never' moment for the UK's chances of a WWF 'Big 4' PPV. The writing was on the wall two weeks prior to the event with the launch of the Premier League, which Sky had the TV rights to. Sky's main focus from 16th August 1992 was flogging the Premier League and the WWF was relegated in terms of editorial and on-screen promotion after that.

I'd also say that bubble burst amongst the 10-16 age group that very summer. It's hard to convey it in 2020, but like memes today, trends came and went in an instant back then. One minute Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are hot and the next they're not, very disposable times in regards to trends back then (but isn't every era like that?). I think the WWF would still have toured and received the same numbers they did in our real timeline, but I don't think we'd have ever seen a UK Big 4 PPV if it hadn't taken place in 1992.

.Q3. I don't think much would've changed to be honest. Ric Flair might've been tempted to stay slightly longer if the plan was to drop the title to Bret Hart at Survivor Series, but even then, I think he'd still be out of the door by February 1993. With the others, Legion of Doom would've still departed just not in the same circumstances. Davey Boy and Warrior would've been sacked as nothing here would've changed that course. I think Davey would've been built up to face Shawn at Survivor Series, though he'd obviously not appear. Tatanka might've gained more popularity with a victory over Martel on the big stage earlier than their belated, pick-up-where-you-left-off Survivor Series outing. Boss Man and Nailz feud could've gained more momentum with a post match Big Boss Man return here. 

Overall besides a few programmes getting off the ground earlier or being resolved earlier, I don't see much change come January 1993 through sheer circumstances of the people involved.

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On 11/25/2018 at 4:16 PM, JakeRobertsParoleOfficer said:

This boom also massively boosted the domestic scene here (often to the exploitation of the punter by All 'We'll Advertise an American star and then say at the event that their was an issue' Star) 

 

Strange one to quantify this statement. The early 90s boom didn't massively boost the domestic scene at all, in fact it crippled it to the point of near extinction by making it look outdated in comparison. The Crabtrees went under in 1995, Brian Dixon quit around 1996/1997. Hammerlock brought over Adam Bomb and Jim Neidhart between 1995-1997 and done OK business with them but not the kind of business that would follow a few years later.

The era itself did pay dividends later on during the Attitude era boom, which saw a marked increase in wrestling fans in the UK. This in turn led many British promoters to run 'Wrestlemania UK' style tours featuring former WWF wrestlers from the late 80s/early 90s boom (Honkey Tonk Man, Jake Roberts, Earthquake, Yokozuna, Greg Valentine, Bushwhackers, Marty Jannetty etc.). So in one sense the wrestlers of that era did boost the scene massively but the boom itself had the reverse effect.

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On 9/5/2020 at 11:36 PM, Tsurutagun said:

What if Austin doesn't go to Vince asking to turn heel in the build up to WM 17

Austin has to win the title because its in Texas and Rock is going to film Scorpion King. Triple H makes sense for being the No. 1 contender after winning 3 Stages of Hell but you need him to have momentum so he has to beat Undertaker right. That means the Streak ends before it even has a chance to become a thing. 

Also, if Austin is a face when the Invasion happens who leads the Alliance. Stephanie is the ECW owner, Trips has to take his wife's side. So he is the leader of the Alliance. 

 

I think as air raid said Angle probably would have been the most likely/ best candidate as they feuded later on and that could have been brought forward. Keeping Chris Benoit heel as he didn't fully turn until around a month after Mania I feel would have created a fresh feud ready and delivered something different for Austin to do when compared to the brawling type matches/ feuds he had in 98/99. Alternatively I would have considered the Undertaker turning for a short time to be Austin's opponent but then i'd rather avoid any of the 01/02 meetings of Austin and Taker as the feud was done to death by then. 

I guess Triple H would have fitted in as the "leader" of the alliance too although once again I would have possibly chosen Angle over Triple H or to join with him as I feel they still had some length left in their feud and Angle (assuming he still faced Shane at KOTR) could have sided with the alliance due to respect for Shane or something.

 

As I love a good what if? What if Brock hadn't left in 2004, there were rumors he was going to lose to The Undertaker at Judgement Day but then where do you go from that? Do you have him shift over to RAW in the draft and feud with Evolution as a face or Benoit as a heel? Does he take the title back from Guerrero on Smackdown in place of JBL and then lose it to John Cena at next years Mania?

I would say the latter at that point was more likely as I doubt Trips would have wanted Brock to outshine him on RAW so we essentially get the JBL character lower down the card or not at all with perhaps Bradshaw retiring to commentary earlier on and perhaps Cena and Batista don't catch on as well either. 

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On 9/11/2020 at 5:29 AM, AndiRush said:

Ric Flair might've been tempted to stay slightly longer if the plan was to drop the title to Bret Hart at Survivor Series, but even then, I think he'd still be out of the door by February 1993.

This was definitely not the plan. The Ultimate Maniacs vs Flair & Razor was planned with a future Flair vs Warrior televised title match in mind. Plans weren’t made for Flair to lose the belt to Bret (or anyone else) until Flair got hurt wrestling Warrior on a house show and needed an indeterminate amount of time off (and he ended up back in the ring way too soon and didn’t feel right for six months) so they had to get the belt off him and they decided Bret was the best way to go in a crisis. Bret and Shawn would have wrestled with no belts at stake in the middle of the card if Flair hadn’t got hurt and Warrior & Smithers hadn’t got themselves sacked.

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16 minutes ago, air_raid said:

This was definitely not the plan. The Ultimate Maniacs vs Flair & Razor was planned with a future Flair vs Warrior televised title match in mind. Plans weren’t made for Flair to lose the belt to Bret (or anyone else) until Flair got hurt wrestling Warrior on a house show and needed an indeterminate amount of time off (and he ended up back in the ring way too soon and didn’t feel right for six months) so they had to get the belt off him and they decided Bret was the best way to go in a crisis. Bret and Shawn would have wrestled with no belts at stake in the middle of the card if Flair hadn’t got hurt and Warrior & Smithers hadn’t got themselves sacked.

The deviation point for the Summerslam '92 timeline would be the last week of May 1992 where the switch from Washington DC to London was announced. The Mega Maniacs weren't a team at this point with Savage feuding with Flair and Warrior feuding with Papa Shango. So from that deviation point, it could go anywhere and plans at that point wouldn't have included Razor Ramon as he hadn't even debuted on TV at that point. Though thanks for the info the Flair dropping the title due to injury, never knew that.

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11 hours ago, The Cutting Edge said:

That's a proper What if itself, what would WWF in 93 look like if they still had Warrior, Bulldog and Flair or any one of them?

Immediately before Smithers was sacked he was told he was going to be used to put over Doink, and in the same conversation that he told Vince he wanted to leave, Flair learned he’d be losing to Razor at Mania. Bret says that Vince had made him think he’d be wrestling Warrior (and winning) at Mania but nobody else has verified that it was ever actually on the cards.

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Never knew the whole Warrior vs Flair gig. 

Warrior not leaving definitely throws a tangent version of 93. If warrior wrestles flair for the belt at RR and wins it, where does that leave Bret? Vs Shawn for ic title at mania?

If warriors there does Hogan still come back? 

Who does warrior face for the title at wm? 

It's mad but there's at least 2 occasions whereby warrior staying almost causes a major change in wrestling history.

93: of he's there Bret may still be stuck in IC land, and we get an almost total change in direction 

98: warrior comes back to Wwf on mega money. Does that throw attitude era off totally?? 

Mad but alot of wrestlers benefitted hugely from warriors mad decisions at times 

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