Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Devon Malcolm

Brexit

Recommended Posts

Wasn't there a survey of people that put a bunch of policies to them and they were overwhelmingly popular, only for those same people to completely turn on them when they were informed that they were Labour policies?

Seen similar reports of "conservatives" in the US being very supportive of left wing policies.

I'd argue that politically most people don't actually have a fucking clue where they stand and just pick a label that they think fits them. I've seen Lib Dem supporters moan about Corbyn sucking up the the Muslims for crying out loud.

In a weird twist I'd say the left wing of the Democrats is probably doing a better job than the UK left, despite the "centrist" wings best efforts to fuck them at every turn.

You would have been laughed out of Washington if you had said that Medicare for all would be a serious talking point in 2019.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some great points about the current system here. I don't know if it's age or awareness, but I've never felt so dissociated from the political process as right now. It's like watching a game, but the problem is at the end we have to vote between contenders who don't offer actual practical proposals for change or progress, because that's not politics. Politics is people management, and that's not what we need.

I agree that the majority of British people just want what's fair, albeit coloured by their own experiences and biases. I'd wager that for that reason the majority couldn't give a flying fuck about fishing quotas or a lot of the items detailed in deal drafts.

Ultimately, it comes down to taxes and the services they provide, so a computer could probably do a better job than a PM. These debates are another routine to be played out as quick as possible so a minority-voted chosen one can attempt to stave off Brexit for four more years while collecting material for their <insert name>: My Story memoir. And, again, like May, whoever gets the Premiership will get in without needing to get on the side of the electorate, just the other party members, which makes the public show even more farcical and irrelevant beyond PR.

I'd not vote for any of the candidates, and I don't have a chance, which is insane and broken. It's a dictatorship of encumbents. And yet, I'll vote for Corbyn on his record rather than anything in particular he's done in the lead up to the next election.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BomberPat said:

There's a Stewart Lee interview I can't find at the moment, where he talks about having been at Oxford with a lot of Tory politician types, and how the entire political system for them was just an extension of the school debating society, just a game that they all played together, and never stopped. 

 

I completely agree with this.  I went to elite schools from the age of 13, and went on to Oxford so I spent my teenage years and early 20s with this set of people, and am still friends with a few of them.

What you get from that background is a fantastic education - so Boris is highly literate, well read, capable of thinking on your feet etc.  But it's also entirely possible to go from School to Uni to journalism to politics without ever leaving school, if you see what I mean.  Always surrounded by the same people, always with the same privileged access to people in power, always a job when you need it.  You never have to actually think for yourself, and you never have to experience real life.

I have a few friends in politics, including in the House.  It's all a game to them.  One of my oldest friends took me round after he was elected, and we remarked how much the place just LOOKED like our old school, or an Oxford college.  The same wood panelling, same carpets, same porters and staff at your beck and call, same cliques, same smell even.  As I said to them " what a feelgood story - if a white, middle class Oxford graduate like yourself can get here, ANYONE can."

They have aspirations to do some good, don't get me wrong.  But it's the exercise of power that really fascinates them.  Getting it, keeping it, using it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, David said:

Or, does the media present a right-wing bias because that's what the majority of their customers want and it's what sells newspapers?

Further muddied when selling newspapers is often a secondary concern compared to the relative influence the proprietors can wield through their outlets.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Carbomb said:

Not just that - out of Britain's 54 PMs, 40 of them went to Oxbridge, 27 going to Oxford.

Poor showing by Cambridge here. You don’t hear that mentioned on Boat Race day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2019 at 8:38 PM, Loki said:

 

What you get from that background is a fantastic education - so Boris is highly literate, well read, capable of thinking on your feet etc.  But it's also entirely possible to go from School to Uni to journalism to politics without ever leaving school, if you see what I mean.  Always surrounded by the same people, always with the same privileged access to people in power, always a job when you need it.  You never have to actually think for yourself, and you never have to experience real life.

I have a few friends in politics, including in the House.  It's all a game to them.  One of my oldest friends took me round after he was elected, and we remarked how much the place just LOOKED like our old school, or an Oxford college.  The same wood panelling, same carpets, same porters and staff at your beck and call, same cliques, same smell even.  As I said to them " what a feelgood story - if a white, middle class Oxford graduate like yourself can get here, ANYONE can."

There was a bit in the latest Popbitch about how Gove and Hunt were both seeing the same woman when they were at Oxford, she settled down with someone else, and named them godfathers of her twins (one each!). The whole thing is just extraordinarily incestuous.

I've been at a wedding for a friend who went to a private school, and someone asked me, "what house were you in?". I was 30 years old, and talking to someone who couldn't conceive of a social circle defined by anything other than school.

As for Corbyn as an example of someone "book-smart" but not savvy - he left school with approximately fuck all, didn't he? And still managed to become an MP and keep his seat for 30 years. Not bad going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

As for Corbyn as an example of someone "book-smart" but not savvy - he left school with approximately fuck all, didn't he? And still managed to become an MP and keep his seat for 30 years. Not bad going.

He is intelligent though, isn't he? He may have left school with the bare minimum, but we're not talking about a guy who came from a poor background and who left school to sling bricks on the local site, are we? I don't think he was ever found waiting on the doors to his local Shropshire job centre to open before heading back to Yew Tree Manor.

Whilst not on the level of a Boris or Cameron, his parents had some dough and he was able to leave school and then embark on travels through Latin America doing student protests and whatnot, and he also worked for a bit as a geography teacher I think.

Again, there's a difference between the likes of Corbyn, who is undoubtedly an intelligent fellow, and the likes of Boris, who's not an idiot by any stretch, but who's more savvy with a healthy dollop of sociopathic behaviour about him.

And don't misunderstand me, if given the choice I'd rather we had Corbyn leading the country than any of the other candidates, but the original point I was making was that the very lack of sociopathic tendencies is what sees the left, for the most part, fail in politics. Being an intelligent, stand-up character and wanting to do what's right isn't what gets you the win in politics, it's being a savvy networker who forms alliances in the right places and who is able to negotiate the minefield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still not sure about this idea of Corb getting pally with Mail and Telegraph journos and them suddenly being on board with renationalising the trains. Even if he was best mates with 90% of them, he'd still have gotten 4 years of relentless character assassination. Your Rupes, your Rothermeres, your Desmonds, they won't stand for any kind of progressive change. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, hallicks said:

I'm still not sure about this idea of Corb getting pally with Mail and Telegraph journos and them suddenly being on board with renationalising the trains.

No one said they would do. He could get pally with the people who write the Morning Star I guess, but I'm not sure about the influence of that particular publication.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...