David Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 With the 'Tories being this bad and all that, you'd assume that people just wouldn't vote for them or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mal the Glorious Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 You can't trust people though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted December 11, 2018 Moderators Share Posted December 11, 2018 The alternative is shit also though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: The alternative is shit also though. There has to be some party that aligns with your views? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Corbyn needs to get his shit together on this. Its no good trying to play both sides anymore. The country is in chaos and he needs to start showing leadership on this or step aside. This is from someone who is generally a fan of his policies, but we will just get Boris in charge if he doesn't at least attempt some semblance of a realistic Brexit/No Brexit plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted December 11, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted December 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, David said: There has to be some party that aligns with your views? There usually is, until elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted December 11, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted December 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Factotum said: Corbyn needs to get his shit together on this. Its no good trying to play both sides anymore. The country is in chaos and he needs to start showing leadership on this or step aside. This is from someone who is generally a fan of his policies, but we will just get Boris in charge if he doesn't at least attempt some semblance of a realistic Brexit/No Brexit plan. He's in a tight spot. Apparently Labour have been conducting extensive private polling & them starting to fully oppose Brexit plays incredibly badly with large portions of their core supporters (especially in the North East). I'm not a fan of placating idiots but given that's what Brexit is all about he's got to either play the game or start telling some unpalatable truths. This is before we even get to his personal politics & the fact he's as much of a 'hard Brexiter' as Rees Mogg or John Redwood, just for very different reasons. TBH I'm a bit disappointed he's soooo tied to his ideology on Brexit. He might not be able to fulfil all his political ambitions under EU rules but if in power they could still make fundamental changes. Other countries in the EU have state owned & ran public services & utilities. Have heavily unionised workforces with employees on boards etc. I'm of the opinion that you bank what you can get right now & work towards the rest. Rather than gambling on 'winning big' at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I know why he's doing it, I just don't like it and I don't agree with it. His stance is just....well its pretty silent, which is deafening. He's lucky the Lib Dems are political cancer at the moment or a lot more Remain Labour supporters would be going over there. He's basically just taking voters like myself for granted, and it doesn't sit well with me. Much like I wanted a cross party solution, Corbyn needs to be talking to his party. Taking advice from all corners and coming towards a plan for both a Brexit negotiation or a crash out and how we handle that. You can still 'play' both sides but with a plan rather than the current mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted December 11, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Factotum said: Corbyn needs to get his shit together on this. Its no good trying to play both sides anymore. The country is in chaos and he needs to start showing leadership on this or step aside. This is from someone who is generally a fan of his policies, but we will just get Boris in charge if he doesn't at least attempt some semblance of a realistic Brexit/No Brexit plan. The problem is that nobody can come out of this as a winner, so no one really wants anything to do with it, apart from narcissistic egomaniacs who will align to anything for fame (quite a lot then, Boris being top boy). Either way, 1/2 of the country are, and/or will be in uproar at either agreeing to a shit deal, or pulling out. At this stage, we’re agreeing to a shit deal. We have three camps, remainers, leavers (regardless of impact) and people saying leave if the deal is right. It’s the last group that are most awkward, because we will not get a good deal, Europe have pretty much established this now. Apart from Corbyn shouting “This is a disgrace” what’s he meant to realistically do here? As soon as he shows any of his cards, people slag off his ties & sandwiches. He’s clearly thought, “fuck this, it’s a mess, there’s nothing I can do to fix this at present, them lot have created this mess, crack on”, rightly or wrongly. The Torries will either salvage this (they won’t) or they won’t. Boris is the kind of prick who will U-Turn on anything for popularity. Do you remember the two statements he wrote prior to the vote on Brexit being announced? One showing his commitment and backing to stay & one showing his commitment to leave. That’s the kind of politician Boris is. Like a lot of people, I’ve personally gone through the 7 stages of grief. But I can’t reach the final stage of acceptance, so keep going back to the start, on repeat, it’s fucking tiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted December 11, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted December 11, 2018 Until they force another election Corbyn is better to carry on the way he is. The current government are doing wonders for his campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Will he even win that election? Polls (yes I know) indicate people still don't see him as a PM. May getting booted out with a Leave Tory leader would beat him in my opinion. I don't want that, but I think even with this shambles of a Government he still seems to flounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted December 11, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted December 11, 2018 I've been of the opinion for quite some time now that Corbyn has already had the greatest impact he's ever likely to have, more important than becoming PM, whether he does or not: he's booted the door back open for left-wing politics in the mainstream. Don't misunderstand me; he's not all that as a left-winger, but given that, between Thatcher, Major, Blair, and Brown, it looked like nobody would even think of looking in the direction of socialism again in the future, he's done a stellar job of getting people talking about it in enough numbers for socialist politics and ideas to achieve a level of critical mass in the UK mainstream that gets other people discussing them, to the point where it'll be difficult to stuff back into the cupboard again. As Sir Humphrey says in Yes, Prime Minister: "When the people start talking about something, do you know what will happen then? Eventually, they'll start thinking about it!" With all the shit he's had thrown at him in the past couple of years, and with all his past being dug up and weaponised by the right wing, I feel it'd be best for him to step down and let one of the new generation of the Labour left to take over, like Rebecca Long-Bailey, Clive Lewis, Angela Rayner, or (at a pinch) Keir Starmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 @Carbomb - Spot on, I agree with all of that. I personally think Starmer is the most likely to be the next leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted December 11, 2018 Moderators Share Posted December 11, 2018 Rebecca Long-Bailey is from Chester, hence unsupportable. It's gotta be Clive Lewis for me, Clive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted December 11, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) Haha, OK. Any one of those is fine by me. An addendum to my previous post: that I think Corbyn should step aside as leader doesn't mean I think he should withdraw from the front line. He's displayed an excellent ability at mobilising grassroots support, which is a must for any left-wing movement. Labour should create a prominent front-bench or cabinet/shadow cabinet position whereby he can coordinate and strategise a programme for Labour's grassroots policies, and liaise with the leadership to ensure everything's connected. For example, whilst I don't like Stella Creasy very much, she's not done a bad job of organising collectives and co-ops in her constituency, which is something every Labour MP who calls themselves socialist should be doing - it's one of the major ways left-wing politics can help start moving society in a fairer and more just direction. If you have someone as experienced as Corbyn working on the organisational side of things to get started a nationwide programme of promoting collectives and co-ops, and helping community groups to set them up, it could make a huge difference in not only how Labour are perceived, but how socialism is perceived in this historically right-leaning country. Edited December 11, 2018 by Carbomb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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