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When it’s Good it’s Fucking Great.


Supremo

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TL:DR – Pro-wrestling is boss. Let’s discuss those amazing moments truly unique to pro-wrestling that make it all worthwhile.

Between writing the other day about the fantastic Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar match from Survivor Series, and then watching this Becky Lynch thing unfold recently, it got me thinking about how, when it clicks, there’s nothing I love more than pro-wrestling. When it’s good, I find more enjoyment out of pro-wrestling and get more of a buzz from those big moments than I ever do from reading books, watching movies or playing computer games. There’s truly nothing that competes.

It’s something I thought Max Landis articulated brilliantly in that,” Wrestling Isn’t Wrestling,” film. Particularly the final monologue found below. I've time stamped it but if it doesn't work the monologue starts at 21:40.

That last bit really resonated with me and it’s something I often think about. He sums it up perfectly.

“Don't get me wrong, a lot of wrestling sucks, but when it’s good it’s FUCKING GREAT.”

I think that’s why a lot of people – myself included - continue to sit through Raw every Monday even when it’s at its worst. No matter how bad it gets, when those good moments hit, it’s the best form of entertainment there is. There's nothing else like it. You instantly can forgive every overlong Dolph Ziggler or Jinder Mahal match you’ve had to sit through when you see Stone Cold Becky Lynch posing in blood.

Sidenote - I’m aware Landis eventually got outed as a shitty human being by the #MeToo movement and the way he went from super active on social media to dead silent was fascinating. Does anyone know what became of him? Is he still getting work as a writer?

Anyway. With all this in mind, to hopefully add a bit of positivity to the forum (and with nothing better to do), I thought I’d think of my favourite moments that highlight the unique nature of pro-wrestling and the way in which there’s no joy on the planet like when those big moments hit. Feel free to add your own.

Daniel Bryan and Bray Wyatt in the Cage

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The highlight of Bray Wyatt’s career by miles and miles. This was so good that I almost begrudge someone as shit as Wyatt being involved. But yeah, whilst I loved the end of Wrestlemania 30 as much as anyone, this is the moment I always go back and watch. If Meltzer and Alvarez are to be believed, this was never the original plan when they turned Bryan heel and put him with the Wyatt Family, but the Yes Chant had crossed over to the mainstream to such a level that they realised how stupid they were being and decided they needed to turn him back face as soon as possible. That’s another reason why I think wrestling can be far superior to every other form of entertainment. You can listen to your audience and take immediate cues if things aren’t working or need to be changed. If a character or story isn’t working in a book or a film, you're fucked, there’s nothing you can do about it. With wrestling, you can do whatever you want at a moment’s notice to get the fans on their feet. And fuck me did they get those fans on their feet here.

Listen to that crowd. That vociferous roar when he first pushes Bray away from him. The even louder cheers when he starts putting the boots in. The absolutely incredible visual when they cut to a wide shot of every single person in the arena doing the, “Yes!” chant along with him. Even the amazing way that he starts to speed up the chant before delivering the knee, with everyone keeping perfectly in time. Absolutely phenomenal, goosebump-inducing stuff.

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I remember it later being announced that Bryan performed this entire angle with a concussion and had no memory of it afterwards. That might be the greatest indication of his talent that we’ll ever see. Imagine being able to create something this special based solely on your instincts. Pure magic. I honestly doubt we’ll ever see someone so over and a crowd so rabid ever again.

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Edge Cashing in on John Cena

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The original and still the best. They’re never going to be able top this. The genuine novelty and surprise of someone cashing in after the champion had wrestled a grueling match for the very first time can never be repeated. What a clever idea. This was during the peak of the Cena backlash, before they began exploiting it and/or making it clear that he was never turning heel. It was wild to see their number one babyface being booed out of the building. Their good-guy champion being drowned with hate. It felt like this bubble that had to burst somehow. Little did we know it would eventually become the norm.

It’s such a great moment when Vince announces Edge and he comes storming down the ring and there's an amazing sense of excitement and tension throughout. Cena’s caked in blood, exhausted, with Edge screaming for the bell to ring. Drama at its best. The crowd go ape-shit for the false finish after the first spear, then even crazier when Edge gets the pin with the second. People in the crowd are literally jumping for joy and high-fiving. Awesome. Such an exciting, dramatic angle. Really felt like you were watching history unfold. Whoever came up with it is a genius. No wonder they’ve recycled it for over a decade. It still works even now. An amazing moment that kick-started one of my favourite feuds ever.

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Jericho’s Debut

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Another thing that I think makes pro-wrestling so uniquely enjoyable is the fact that you always have that instant live crowd reaction to support the big moments. It’s like an extra level of immersion. With books, games, films or TV shows you might have that collective experience when you talk during or afterwards on Twitter, but nothing compares to a big pop right as something happens. This is the perfect example. That pop when, “JERICHO,”  appears on the Tron is brilliant. It's at 1:40 if you wanna skip straight to the pop.

I miss the excitement there used to be when someone jumped between WCW and WWF. Again, that's something truly unique to pro-wrestling. Someone graduating from NXT just isn’t the same. Personally, the timing couldn’t have been more perfect for little teenage Supremo. I watched both WCW and WWF at the time, and Jericho was one of my favourites in WCW, but I hadn’t moved on to reading the Internet or Power Slam yet, so had absolutely no idea what was coming when the Countdown reached zero. I wasn’t even aware Jericho was done with WCW. A true surprise. I’m certain I shouted, “YES!” and punched the air when his name popped up. Sitting in on a Friday night watching hours and hours of pro-wrestling like any cool fourteen year old lad.

Watching it back now, I agree with Jericho’s assessment that it’s aged quite badly in terms of his daft, hammy facials, and it was a shame how quickly he fell down the card afterwards, but still, as a singular moment this is up there with things I’ll never tire of watching.

“The Streak….is Over”

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I’ve written about this a million times on here but it remains the most amazing experience I’ve ever had watching any form of entertainment. No film, book or game has ever given me a similar sense of shock and adrenaline as I had watching this unfold live. Just an absolutely mental, surreal, unbelievable moment. You’d never believe they managed to generate this much drama over an old, fictional undead wizard losing a fake wrestling match.

I’ve said it before, but what made this so magnificent was how, almost by accident, they made everyone stop caring about The Streak moments before they broke it. Throughout the HBK and Triple H matches there was a huge sense of drama and anticipation that The Streak might be broken. You had these amazing matches, with so many ups and downs, where people were on the edge of their seats. That Tombstone spot from Wrestlemania 27 is the perfect example. People lost their fucking minds watching that. I remember watching it in the pub and I remember pints flying and people jumping in the air, losing their shit. But you didn’t have any of that here. Frankly, people didn’t give a fuck. By mid-way through this match with Lesnar you could sense that The Streak had almost jumped the shark. Everyone knew they were never going to break it, which combined with the dull, boring match, left people not caring. Personally, I distinctly remember making a sandwich and pissing about on my phone for the majority of it. The match itself was rotten, meaning it was the least invested I’d been in a Taker match in years, and the result was a foregone conclusion anyway, so why care?

And then the ref’s hand hit three and we were through the Looking Glass. We were unplugged from The Matrix. We weren’t in Kansas anymore. Fucking hell, what a rush that was. A genuine jolt of energy, like being suddenly awoken from a dream. It honestly didn’t seem real. Then you had to just assume that someone had made a mistake. Those immediate crowd shots were a thing of beauty. People in genuine shock about the result of a pro-wrestling match. Fantastic. I could watch that front row jump to their feet when the ref counts three on a continuous loop for the rest of my life. Just look at them!

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The icing on the cake is that audible gasp from the crowd when they put the 21-1 graphic up on the big screens. What insane drama. A storyline built up over two decades, paid off in the most shocking, brilliant moment, leaving people in genuine awe and amazement.

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I don’t watch long-running soaps like Coronation Street or Eastenders, so maybe they’ve been able to weave a storyline over twenty years similar to this, but I doubt it. I can’t think of anything so dramatic. It was like someone had died when Taker walked up the ramp. It’ll never be topped or replicated. And to think, I was one of those people who previously believed they should never have broken The Streak and he should’ve retired undefeated at Wrestlemania. And miss out on this?! Fuck that. This was the BEST.

Out of interest, are there any normal, functioning, logical-thinking human beings on the planet who believe Meltzer’s story about the referee not knowing ahead of time? Chinny reckon, Dave.

Nakamura’s NXT Debut

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I feel like this is the smarkiest of moments. I doubt there were many kids who felt the same way watching it. But as someone who’s followed wrestling so much, at a time when nothing really shocks or surprises me anymore, this blew my mind. I’m so happy I hadn’t seen him before because watching New Japan World afterwards it was clear that he’d had better matches in the past, but seeing him with fresh eyes here it was like watching a God or something.

After years of hearing about guys supposedly being, “good in Japan,” only to be painfully average, in walks this fully-fledged superstar. Pissing charisma, dripping in confidence, effortlessly having a match of the year candidate in front of an amazing, rabid crowd that lapped it up, this was unbelievable. Even the Matrix pose during his entrance. If you’ve never seen that before…fuck me, it’s cool.

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My wife was pregnant at the time. I genuinely wanted to call our son Shinsuke after this. What a match. What a debut. If we’re honest, his WWE career never really lived up to this, which I think is partly down to booking and partly down to him becoming lazy, but as far as first impressions go this might be the greatest of all time.

Watching it back, it’s also lovely that this was Sami Zayn's swansong from NXT. Talk about going out on top. I love the way they follow him to the curtain as the crowd sing his (awesome) theme tune. Perfect. God, I love pro-wrestling.

Punk vs Cena - Money in the Bank 2011

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Everyone bangs on about the Pipe Bomb promo but the PPV match itself is by far the peak of this angle. Everything about it is booked to perfection. It’s arguably my favourite match of all time. It has everything that I love about pro-wrestling. Crazy loud, invested crowd reactions, a great storyline building up to it, stakes that might sound preposterous but are completely believable in the realm of pro-wrestling and one of the most satisfying pay-offs of all time. Just listen to that crowd during Punk’s entrance.

It was so cool leading up the show, trying to figure out ways that they’d book themselves out of the scenario they’d created and they deserve all the credit in the world for what they mapped out. For starters, everyone involved acts in a way that completely fits their character. Vince does whatever he can to screw Punk, trying to run in and cost him the match. Then Cena lives up to his noble, honest character by refusing to accept anything less than a fair victory. Then Punk acts exactly like the maniacal, obsessive anarchist you’d expect him to be, exploiting Cena’s distraction to win the belt.

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Bringing out Del Rio to cash in is a stroke of genius too, since that’s what pretty much everyone expected to happen, but fair play to them for swerving that in favour of Punk escaping and leaving with the belt. That kiss goodbye is awesome. What a visual and what a cliff-hanger. It’s such a tragedy that they had no idea where to go next because, for this one night only, I honestly don’t think they’ve ever booked anything better.

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So yeah, feel free to add your favourite moments that make all the shit pro-wrestling we sit through worth it. Those moments that prove that, when it's good, there's nothing as great as pro-wrestling. I'll probably add more as I think of them. Pro-wrestling is the best.

 

 

Edited by Supremo
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When the referees hand hit the mat for a third time in that Undertaker/Brock match, match quality was forgotten about. The mediocre build went out of the window. That result was as real as wrestling ever has been. The UKFF chat was packed that night and everyone had the same reaction. I logged on here, everyone had the same reaction. Twitter, from the snidest cunts who think they are in the know to the most casual fan all had the same reaction. The impact of that result  was massive, which is incredible really in this day and age.

It was like it never happened for about 20 seconds afterwards. Not until the graphic hit the big screen. The production of that moment wasnt as slick as usual either, which added to it. The crowd reacted in shock at the screen before we at home got the visual on our TVs. Proved in the long run to be the right decision, too. Undertaker clearly hasnt got it anymore. It would have been pretty sad seeing him have these mediocre matches with the likes of Bray Wyatt every year, in the hope the streak lives on until its 30-0.

When WWE get it right, nobody does it better.

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1 hour ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

The UKFF chat was packed that night and everyone had the same reaction. I logged on here, everyone had the same reaction. Twitter, from the snidest cunts who think they are in the know to the most casual fan all had the same reaction. 

 

The best ever UKFF Chat reaction was to the Raw debut of Brodus Clay. That was wrestling being fucking great.

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Supremo already covered a few of my favourites like the Streak ending and Nakamura’s debut so I’ve tried to think of a few more.

 

Savage and Elizabeth reunite

 

This is one that I didn’t see until probably decades after it happened, which goes to show just how perfect it is that it can still be so moving and so emotional years and years after the fact. Savage has just had the most incredible match against Ultimate Warrior, given everything he’s got and then some, but come up short and now has to retire. That’s already pro wrestling gold. We know that Liz is in the audience. Even if you weren’t following at the time, you know Savage and Elizabeth are a pair. Then ... she’s there. And it’s beautiful, so much so you even forget how he (allegedly?) treated her behind the scenes. You’d have to have a heart of stone not to feel something here. Bobby Heenan undercuts it with his commentary, but while from anyone else it would diminish the moment, Heenan pitches it at the golden point where it somehow adds to the whole thing and stops it becoming too mawkish or twee. They’ve never done soap opera or romance better.

 

Triple H hits the Tombstone

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Supremo touched on this one a little, and I’m in the group that has never believed in wrestling more than in this moment. The Streak actually ending is the most shocked I’ve ever been but this is the most invested. I’ve spoken at length about this moment, about how it’s my favourite ever near fall, and I’ll say it again, everything, everything from the moment they had that wordless exchange on Raw led to these few seconds when everybody was convinced the Streak was over even though when you think about it, it clearly wasn’t. But you didn’t think about it because you were utterly lost in the moment. JR’s last great call, Triple H’s facials the equal of Mick Foley’s Cactus Jack reveal in 2000 ... the rest of the match revolves around this spot for me and it’s a major reason why it’s my favourite ever match. Because I believed.

 

‘Tap, Triple H, you bastard, TAP’

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I should make it clear from the off that this moment has been utterly tarnished and I haven’t watched this moment since we found out what Benoit did. I’m speaking about it because of the way I felt at the time. 

Benoit was the original internet ‘being held down’ wrestler. Triple H was The Plan. Somehow, Benoit won the Rumble, and got into the main event at WrestleMania. Meanwhile, Eddie Guerrero had joyously won the WWE Title. All signs were pointing to a happy ending but still, you couldn’t help but think the dream would be crushed and Triple H would retain. At the very most, you suspected Shawn was in the match so Trips didn’t have to take the loss. 

Cut to Triple H, trapped in the Crossface, for what seemed like hours, drawing me in and drawing me in until I was screaming “tap, tap, COME ON, TAP! TAAAP! YES! YEEEEESSSSSSS!” He did it! He actually DID IT! Benoit won!

They replicated it at XXX with a non-murderer but it wasn’t quite the same with Bryan. At the time, this was the best of wrestling. Not now, but at the time.

 

Brock annihilates Cena

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You knew this was going to be a memorable match, but my god, the shock of seeing Cena just destroyed. Relentlessly and mercilessly destroyed. Cena. Big Match John. Super Cena. Destroyed. Amazing stuff from both men. You watched, astonished, unable to quite believe what you were seeing. 

Indirectly, I think this match also led to the sheer brilliance of the Goldberg match at Survivor Series. After this match - and the Streak ending - and the formulaic Lesnar suplexfests that followed - you started to fall into a trap of assumptions with Brock, just like before this match shattered every expectation. Without this match, that Goldberg one can’t happen. That and this are my favourite Lesnar matches and two of the most unpredictable ever.

 

A star is born

 

One of the great joys of pro wrestling is seeing a wrestler develop and become a superstar in front of your eyes, following them the whole way. It happened with Austin. The SCG lads saw it on the Timeline (come on @Liam O'Rourke, bring us more podcasts, please) with The Rock. We are seeing it right now with the greatness of Becky Lynch. But one of the most pleasing, because it wasn’t expected, was the glory of Velveteen Dream’s rise to stardom.

I was very down on the Dream gimmick when it first came about. It wasn’t clicking for me, something intangible was missing.

And then, one exchange with Aleister Black later, there it was. Everything had clicked into place. This guy is pretty damn good. The charisma!

Each subsequent appearance made you realise you were watching someone special. Especially that wonderful moment when he just appears behind Black during his entrance.

By the time he got to Takeover, he was a star. But his gear on that night, the reception he got, and most of all an outstanding match, made him a STAR.

Then to top it all off... “enjoy infamy, Velveteen Dream.” Aleister Black finally saying his name reflected us realising we, with any justice, were watching the next big thing. And we were there (well, on screen) to see it all.

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Sidenote - I’m aware Landis eventually got outed as a shitty human being by the #MeToo movement and the way he went from super active on social media to dead silent was fascinating. Does anyone know what became of him? Is he still getting work as a writer?

He's still on Instagram and he's still getting a lot of writing work. The girl who played Batista in that video made an accusation about him on Twitter (not against her) but it seemed to go nowhere, just a few people going 'Oh I've heard stuff' so most people moved on as nobody actually knew anything.

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Always go straight to this one as it still gives me goosebumps. 'He's here!' and the crowd goes fucking ape-shit!
Undertaker had been gone about 6-7 months and if I remember rightly him returning was a massive surprise [at least it was to me] and the reaction is unlike almost anything you would get today. Just a crowd, totally marking out and going apocalyptic for a sustained period of time.

Brilliant.

 

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3 hours ago, bAzTNM#1 said:

For old schoolers like myself, it would have to be when Jake Roberts stuck his snake on Randy Savage....Everythings right, from the black glove, to the slow walk, to the slagging off interview. Brilliance..

 

Yes. I watched Survivor Series and Tuesday in Texas back to back the other day, my god what a story that was, The set up at SS and the match at Tuesday in Texas, nothing fancy or technical just a proper fight between two blokes that hated each other, little things like Savage attacking as Jake walked to the ring, and Jake after hitting I think a DDT late in the match sort of pushes Savage's limp body away as he himself is selling also. Jake slapping Liz. Jake's fucking promo before the match about it not being the beginning etc. It really is unbelievably good.

My shout, Bret Hart at KOTR '93, one of my favourite PPV's of all time, mainly due to the story weaved throughout the night of Bret overcoming adversity and injury and somehow beating a fresh Bam Bam in the finals.

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2 minutes ago, Ambulance Chaser said:

Jake slapping Liz. Jake's fucking promo before the match about it not being the beginning etc. It really is unbelievably good.

 

'Just let me touch her again.' - what a slimey, evil bastard.
SS 1991 was right around the time I lost my mind on wrestling and I remember thinking Jake and The Undertaker were the two scariest people I had ever seen.

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Seth turning on the Shield. I was watching live and was just about to go to bed, but stayed around for the Shield segment. That moment woke me up. What was great was when Seth lined the chair up and a man in the audience screamed no. Just like The Undertaker losing the streak, I sat there as a man in my mid-twenties shaking my head in shock because I bought in to the drama of this soap opera about fake fights. 

Jeff Hardy finally winning the world title. Just a great moment that he deserved. Especially after the fuck up of Survivor Series the month before with the “stairwell attack” and taking him out of the match. Great reaction from the crowd as they wanted it so much. 

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An absolute insane mega pop for the glass break.
Maybe an even bigger pop for Mankind getting the pin.
A great call by Michael Cole: 'Mick Foley has achieved his dream - for everyone that has ever been told 'You can't do it'.

Vince's reactions just put the cherry on top. Disbelief, anger, total despair, back to anger...

Sheer perfection.

 

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The massive bait and switch over Jeff Hardy's alleged return at Survivor Series 2008 was ace. Especially after sitting through what felt like an ice age of Tripper Vs Koslov. There's the double-down and Vicki walks out 

"I promised you a triple threat. He's back, he's here" The crowd starts getting excited for what they think is Jeff, then there's a little silenceand some palpable anticipation before "You think you know me." is heard over the sound system and they go batshit insane for it as Edge strolls.out onto the stage. The way Jeff comes out towards the end and inadvertently helps Edge to the title sets up a feud between the two of them going forward (and also protects Tripper as he's not had to worry about doing a clean job)

I couldn't find it on Youtube in anything resembling decent quality, but here's a link to the video on WWE's website: https://www.wwe.com/videos/triple-h-vs-vladimir-kozlov-vs-edge-survivor-series-2008

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To continue from the Bryan point made in the opening post, my lasting memory from that whole build from January until winning the title was the incredible moment, and subsequent line of...

"That's not all I want..."

A line so simple yet so effective. Sure, Bryan's got his Wrestlemania match against Triple H, and that's great and all, but fans didn't want to see that. Unless it involved the show ending with Bryan holding up the championship, nobody was arsed. It all just felt bittersweet, and an attempt to appease the fans ahead of the Batista/Orton main event that nobody really wanted. That line changed it all though. The first indication that "hang on, they might actually be going with this" - it felt huge. A proper penny dropping moment that the grand plan was actually going to change based on the feedback and reaction from the fans alone. Everyone knew it as well, just listen to the pop as soon as he said it. The first proper confirmation that the guy, who was never going to be the guy, was going to be the guy, even if it was only for one night.

Rollins' Cash In

Good as the Wrestlemania 31 main event was, it was beginning to fit into a formulaic groove. Roman was their guy, and he was going to win. This was the match he'd been groomed for since making his debut, and this was the culmination of the journey of trying to get him over - and it was all going to plan. He'd taken his arse kicking, looked legit in being able to hang with Lesnar, and was now making a Cena-esque comeback toward the end of the match. I remember just thinking "get it over with" - in relation to Roman winning. It seemed like it was an inevitability that he was going to flatten Brock with another spear, and have his coronation at the end of a genuinely great match.

But then an F5!

And then...

Absolutely huge mark-out moment. The concept of cashing in during a match had never been done before, so from my perspective, it was completely out of the blue. The surprise was made even more so given that it seemed a certainty Roman was walking out with the belt. Even if it was just stalling the inevitable, it was a genuinely historic way to close Wrestlemania and a really brilliantly done moment. Made even more brilliant by Roman's dad shoot getting pissed off because he had no idea of the change and had front row tickets to see his son win the strap.

Owens vs Cena

One of my main gripes with WWE these days is their reluctance to ever let their regular stars appear on even a similar wavelength to their big, part-time names. It's a big reason why they're so starved of genuine stars at the moment because it's an incredibly rare occasion that they're even presented on par with the top guys, let alone stronger than. Yet on the rare exceptions, they pull the trigger with it (think Becky Lynch leading an attack on RAW and making Rousey look like her bitch) - it can be a career-defining moment. I think this was one of the most notable examples of this.

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Boy, that sure was a great way to introduce Owens to the main roster, huh? He came off great. Levelling Cena, holding his own on the mic, laying him out and then presenting the NXT Championship on equal footing with Cena's U.S title, which was going through a proper resurgence with the introduction of the open challenge shtick. 

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Oh okay, nice. That should be a great match, hopefully they make Owens look good in defeat, or even better, avoid giving him a clean loss. It would probably hamper his momentum a bit if they had their NXT Champion go out flat on his back in his PPV debut, right?

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Oh shit!

This was mega. This was before Cena was showing arse to every fucker. And this wasn't a Vince pet project coming up and looking this strong either, this was indie darling, former ROH Champion Kevin Steen laying out WWE's top guy in his debut match. As someone who used to watch him in ROH, being able to witness this guy, who was the complete opposite of everything a traditional top guy in WWE would typically be, go over Cena clean as a whistle in his debut was amazing to watch.

Neville vs Zayn

The peak of NXT storytelling. Incredible match, probably my favorite in NXT history. 

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You've got progressive knobhead Neville defending against the purest babyface at the time in Zayn, in what is Zayn's last crack at winning the belt which had evaded him through progressively nefarious measures. The match they proceeded to have was an amazing contest, with consistent, continuative storytelling, a molten hot crowd and brilliantly worked. This was before NXT transformed into "the place for the lads we don't have New Japan or ROH to have" and had the feeling of the two very top guys squaring off for the biggest prize possible. They did a fantastic job of making the title feel meaningful and it paid dividends with the emotional investment many had in this match. 

Add on top of that the cracking post-match stuff with Owens, providing a smooth transition from one main event feud to another in the blink of an eye and this was a huge winner.

Zack Sabre vs Okada

Fuck it, I'm chucking this on here because I saw it live and it's my favorite live match I've seen, I think.

If someone ever asks the benefits of having wins and losses matter, show them this match. 

You've got Okada, the recently defeated champion with about three clean losses in the previous two years facing off against the best wrestler within the UK, taking place in front of 2500 rabid English fans on Sabre Jr's turf. The story of Okada being lost without his belt, trying to out-wrestle a motivated Sabre is a great story, as is the finish. They hook you into thinking they're going to repeat the finish from their original match months prior, but Sabre simply out-smarts Okada and traps him in a pinning combination to send everyone mad. That's the impact of making people look as good as the best, and the impact of making someone look so strong, that when he is beaten, it results in a reaction like this.

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