IronSheik Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 29 minutes ago, Chasingamymatt said: This is what i miss. storytelling to fit the crowd. Rock was amazing at it, did the same against Brock at SS, heard how the crowd was going and went with it. Bret SC at 13 was planned but the timing in that was equally perfect. Also another one that is forgotten is Shawn & Shamrock, just watch shawn in the match every more and nuance is in response to the crowd. I just watched the match again including entrances and it is just a fucking masterclass. It's such an amazing art form to have the audience give instance and constant feedback and the true great performers being able to adapt and alter things on the fly. It must take so much nerve to be able to listen and feel it with the pressure etc at that level. Hogan says it great in the clip actually, something along the lines of - you either underatand the art form or you don't, you either have "it" or you don't. If you don't, then you just choreograph everything and sometimes you'll get lucky and sometimes you won't. That's what today's style is really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Everything about the Edge WWE24. Such a fucking rollercoaster of emotions. A perfect example of why I love wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinc Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Don't mean to be a tit and I could naturally listen to Rock talk for hours, but I always think Rock got a bit too much credit for the X8 match. Like, I don't really think he worked as a heel at all. He certainly acts the babyface when he's doing the People's Elbow to finish it, except his head's a bit down because I think he was a bit genuinely pissed off at the response. I think the story that Rock was really working heel in that match is a bit of a myth which Rock has internalised, rather than having much basis in what actually happened in the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted April 6, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted April 6, 2020 he's not working heel in terms of aggravating the crowd or bending the rules, but in terms of how the match is structured, he absolutely is. Rock gets heat on Hogan, Hogan gets the big babyface comeback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted November 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted November 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 4/5/2020 at 10:23 PM, IronSheik said: Hogan says it great in the clip actually, something along the lines of - you either underatand the art form or you don't, you either have "it" or you don't. If you don't, then you just choreograph everything and sometimes you'll get lucky and sometimes you won't. That's what today's style is really. This is probably the one part of what he said in that clip that surely is not 100% correct, though - Randy Savage infamously choreographed his matches, and there aren't many with a body of work as strong as his. He may be an exception to the rule, but he's still proof that some people just worked better with a structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted November 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2020 51 minutes ago, Carbomb said: This is probably the one part of what he said in that clip that surely is not 100% correct, though - Randy Savage infamously choreographed his matches, and there aren't many with a body of work as strong as his. He may be an exception to the rule, but he's still proof that some people just worked better with a structure. yes, Savage and DDP famously used to script everything, to the point that the Wrestlemania 3 match with Ricky Steamboat was a numbered list of moves/spots - Steamboat has told stories of Savage stopping him in the hallway and shouting, "Number 47!" and Steamboat being expected to be able to answer back with what that precise spot was. I was at a training seminar years ago, and the first questions we were asked were how long we'd been working, how many matches we'd worked, and roughly what percentage of matches we'd worked were 100% called in the ring compared to 100% scripted. The trainer, who's a successful wrestler of some 20+ years experience, then admitted that he had never had a match that was completely called in the ring, and that when he started, guys like Greg Valentine and Tito Santana would be working the main event of the show he was opening, and would openly ridicule anyone who got in the ring before their match to try and work anything out. The thing is, a lot's changed since Greg Valentine was a going concern. Of course Hulk Hogan could call everything in the ring, because he only ever had three or four spots he was likely to call in the first place. But any two wrestlers meeting for the first time today could have any number of moves or sequences in their repertoire and not know if the other was familiar with them; you can't just whisper "slam me, brother" and that be enough. Similarly, any wrestler working at even a reasonably high level now is likely going to be having their matches recorded, streamed, and stuck on YouTube, or OnDemand services, all the way up to being on TV or PPV. Any wrestler back in the day could work the exact same match a hundred times in a hundred different towns without anyone cottoning on, but the increased exposure robs you of that option today - it's like the impact of the movies on vaudeville, or televised stand-up on the old gentlemen's club comics; you could dine out on one routine your whole career if nobody ever saw it twice, but the moment it's on telly, you're fucked on the live circuit if you haven't got anything new. Meltzer said it recently, and it's almost certainly true, that any wrestler working at a decent level today likely puts infinitely more thought into each individual match than any of the top guys in the '70s and '80s, because each match is under so much more scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted November 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2020 You've probably got a lot more like cameras and things to try and account for nowadays, and obviously the rest holds for commercial breaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronSheik Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 The growth in popularity of Cody since rejoining WWE has been rather brilliant. From his debut at Mania he just looked and acted like a fucking star. Last year's drama at Mania was compelling and this organic movement of support for him following the Rock's return has been class. He's over like rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted February 14 Paid Members Share Posted February 14 14 hours ago, IronSheik said: The growth in popularity of Cody since rejoining WWE has been rather brilliant. From his debut at Mania he just looked and acted like a fucking star. Last year's drama at Mania was compelling and this organic movement of support for him following the Rock's return has been class. He's over like rover. Don’t root around too much exhuming long dead threads, some of the comments in The Many Sins Of Cody Rhodes that (cough) some of us made about “Cody Adequate Rhodes” really haven’t aged well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 This is a good thread though, I like to read these things to see how far my opinion has changed, if it has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted February 14 Paid Members Share Posted February 14 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Loki said: This is a good thread though, I like to read these things to see how far my opinion has changed, if it has. Oh absolutely! Just look at how I reply to a post by Supremo, OnTPOTY elect, implying he must be some kind of AEW fanboi nutbar to heap such glowing praise on Cody vs everyone’s favourite GM, Nick Aldis ; On 12/30/2018 at 2:54 PM, air_raid said: Great post, MPDTT. Wait, what...? What a prick 2020 raid was. He got EVERYTHING wrong. Edited February 14 by air_raid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 We all make mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted February 14 Paid Members Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, air_raid said: Don’t root around too much exhuming long dead threads, some of the comments in The Many Sins Of Cody Rhodes that (cough) some of us made about “Cody Adequate Rhodes” really haven’t aged well. They were all accurate at the time. I feel like it's going to be one of those things that gets re-written or misremembered over the years but Cody really was absolutely fucking terrible for a significant portion of his AEW run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Blog Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 12 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: They were all accurate at the time. I feel like it's going to be one of those things that gets re-written or misremembered over the years but Cody really was absolutely fucking terrible for a significant portion of his AEW run. Agreed, some awful stuff during his time there. The Codyverse, Never challenging for title, My Chemical Rhodemance, flaming tables for reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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