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wandshogun09

UFC 232: Jones vs Gustafsson 2

Who wins and how?   

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I think it’s definitely too soon for Kayla Harrison. Hasn’t she only had 2 or 3 fights? I’d be all for Cyborg just going over to Rizin and smashing 15 nans up while Harrison gets more experience. Then maybe do Cyborg vs Harrison a year or 2 down the line if Harrison’s doing well. 

Best case scenario is that she comes to some agreement to stay in the UFC and we get that Nunes rematch though. Then that could actually keep the 145 division interesting and buy them a bit more time to build the division and bring Harrison in, along with any other featherweights they can find who look decent. Actually try to make a division. I don’t think they want to do that though. 

Do Bellator still have a women’s 145 division? What about ONE FC? 

Edited by wandshogun09

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Yeah the UFC should be trying to keep Cyborg on board, as she's legitimately one of the best women's fighter's there has ever been and has also proven to be a bit of a draw. Whether they want to keep her or not though, I'm unsure. The relationship between both sides has always seemed a little less than harmonious. Cyborg against Anderson, whilst Nunes defends the 135 strap against Holm or Vieira, would possibly be a way to go in the meantime. Winner of Cyborg and Anderson fights Nunes at 145 at the end of next year. 

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Cyborg is still saying she wants to box as well. And she even mentioned rematching Jorina Baars in Muay Thai. She might be looking to do something else. But she definitely seemed to want the Nunes rematch. And she deserves it. 

But Dana’s already came out and said he’s not interested in Nunes vs Cyborg 2. Which tells you everything really. You have to think if they’re not wanting that fight, what else is there to do with Cyborg right now? They’ve been struggling to find her bodies a lot of the time for the last 2 years. Now she’s finally got a natural opponent that makes sense and is going to be fireworks every time because of how they match up...and the UFC are not interested. All signs point to them cutting ties with her. 

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Dana has seemed to dislike Cyborg from Day One. It seems strange to ditch a division when they've been obsessed with title fights headlining PPVs. Especially when they were pulling interim titles out of their arse over the last couple of years.

What was the last Non-Title fight to headline a PPV that didn't include someone called Conor McGregor? Anderson Silva vs Nick Diaz? Even the first Conor vs Nate fight only came about because RDA was injured. 

 

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Yeah the last one not involving McGregor would be Anderson Silva vs Nick Diaz. So January 2015. Before that you’re talking Rashad Evans vs Dan Henderson in 2013. Before that Anderson Silva vs Stephan Bonnar 2012. 

They’ve got less and less frequent over the years to the point that now I don’t think you’ll see a non-title fight top a PPV unless it’s a McGregor, Rousey, Lesnar level name. And even then they’d probably just create an interim title. They’re obsessed with belts. 

Edited by wandshogun09

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This was awkward. Jon Jones post-fight interview with Ariel Helwani and Chael Sonnen. And Jones flat out refuses to talk to Chael at all. 

What happened there? 

Had to laugh at Jones going ”I’ve been the light heavyweight champion since 2011. I’m here for a long time, I’m only 23 years old...” 

He’s 31. 

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Chael P has been a bit sceptical about Jones and UFC claims that he's not taken any drugs. So has Helwani, in fairness, but Jones can be like that. Mind he refused to answer Luke Thomas' question, and he treated that reporter at the weekend like shite.

The Thomas one was weird because Thomas is usually very fair and even with Jones.

Sonnen and Jones were pals, so maybe Jones feels Sonnen should have been a mate about it.

Edited by ColinBollocks

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14 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Cyborg is still saying she wants to box as well. And she even mentioned rematching Jorina Baars in Muay Thai. She might be looking to do something else. But she definitely seemed to want the Nunes rematch. And she deserves it. 

But Dana’s already came out and said he’s not interested in Nunes vs Cyborg 2. Which tells you everything really. You have to think if they’re not wanting that fight, what else is there to do with Cyborg right now? They’ve been struggling to find her bodies a lot of the time for the last 2 years. Now she’s finally got a natural opponent that makes sense and is going to be fireworks every time because of how they match up...and the UFC are not interested. All signs point to them cutting ties with her. 

I wonder if it's Vince McMahon syndrome: giving her the willy cos she didn't become a star under Dana's brand? My pet theory is that Dana is more like Vince than he'd ever be willing to admit. 

Still, what a show - when Nunes won I ran through to the bedroom and woke up my wife. She wasn't as jubilant as I was, funnily enough.

Edited by Brewster McCloud

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Nah. It's tied to Rousey, his hatred of Cyborg. When Dana was chucking it up there, they were trashing each other, and going by that great pillow dig, they still don't like each other. That and Cyborg doesn't mind telling Dana "no".

Rogan seemed to have a really unbalanced dislike of Cyborg too. You can maybe understand if Joe was very anti PED but he jokes all the time about chucking USADA and makes exceptions for his favourites. He's softened recently but I think that has to do with Schaub becoming pals with her.

Despite her murky past, Cyborg does seem like a proper nice person. She's put up with some right unfair shit from the UFC.

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Well, yeah, plus throw in the fact that, as a roided up foreign, Cyborg isn't that marketable - Rogan can't fap over her looks so he's not going to put her over on commentary like he did with Ronda "She's beautiful! She's badass!' Rousey. 

Edited by Brewster McCloud

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It went further than that. Before Cyborg was in the UFC and at the height of the UFC/Rousey love-in, Rogan was saying all sorts of vile shit on his podcast like ‘Cyborg would have to cut her dick off to make 135’. Schaub is all supportive of Cyborg now but I could swear he was laughing along with Rogan when he made comments like that. Cyborg’s boyfriend was on Schaub’s podcast a year or so ago and said to Schaub’s face ‘I know you and Joe Rogan are boys but tell him from me he’s a fucking idiot’ or something. Schaub didn’t know where to look.

Dana himself was no better either, spouting stuff like ‘Cyborg looks like Wanderlei Silva in a fucking dress’. It’s one thing some div on Sherdog or here talking like that but the president of the UFC saying that to the MMA media is something else entirely. 

Cyborg was no angel back then, it’s well documented that she popped for steroids. But the top tier UFC lot seemed to really hate her. It’s not like she’s the only fighter to fail a test. And in fairness to her, that was 2012, she did her time and she’s passed the tests and been a professional in the 6 years since. On top of that she’s exciting as fuck to watch, never in a boring fight, from memory she never pulls out injured and while she’s not a star like Rousey (or even Carano for a short time) was, she’s definitely gained in popularity during her UFC stint. It seems like more fans like her now than they ever did before. She’s done a great job rehabilitating her image considering she was a big heel a few years ago. Which makes it weird that they seem to want out of the Cyborg business now. She’s the type of fighter Dana should love. It can’t still be about the drug test 6 years ago. Fuck, we’ve seen Jones fail last week and force the entire card to move states and Dana’s cool with it. Anderson Silva’s failed a couple and he’s being promised a title shot if he somehow turns back the clock and beats Israel Adesanya. Chael Sonnen got second and third chances. Vitor Belfort was still getting PPV main card spots right to the end. There are countless examples that debunk that as the reason Dana clearly doesn’t like her. I think the Ronda thing is part of it but even then, it’s Nunes and Holm he’s got to thank for his favourite being in the WWE instead now. Cyborg didn’t actually have any impact on Ronda’s MMA career. Sadly, I think it’s a combination of her not being ‘hot enough’ like a Rousey or Tate or VanZant etc. And I also think they might just butt heads behind the scenes a bit and in negotiations. When she initially came in they’d already traded barbs in the media so they weren’t off to a good start. Then you factor in that Dana’s bezzie mate Tito was Cyborg’s manager so that won’t have helped either. 

To be honest, I don’t know why they ever brought Cyborg in if they didn’t want to get the machine behind her. Was it just to stop Bellator or whoever having her? Or were they actually hoping to somehow finally do that Ronda vs Cyborg fight? I know the popular revisionist thinking now is that Dana would’ve never let it happen but I don’t know. It was the biggest fight possible at one point. Cyborg debuted in the UFC in May 2016. Ronda came back and fought Nunes that December and the UFC thought it was going to be a squash match for Ronda. Plus they were still trying to get Cyborg down to 135, having her in this weird catchweight ‘no woman’s land’ at 140lbs. I think they thought Ronda would beat Nunes and they could set up Ronda vs Cyborg in 2017 and collect on all that 💰 but it all went pear shaped and now 2 years later Amanda ‘cannon fodder’ Nunes has smashed them both into oblivion. 

As awesome as Nunes is, she has really fucked the women’s game up. Retired Tate, retired Rousey, now she’s ended Goldborg’s streak. 

1 hour ago, ColinBollocks said:

Nah. It's tied to Rousey, his hatred of Cyborg. When Dana was chucking it up there, they were trashing each other

Yeah, Dana’s love for Ronda went deep. Just look at him here. I don’t know about you but my boss doesn’t look at me like this...

5F2CEC33-830F-43C7-BDA3-C38E020BE0EB.jpeg

He also doesn’t wear t-shirts of me naked;

0FDA94F2-EAF0-4D0A-9CCA-F9B308904753.jpeg

Edited by wandshogun09

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Yeah. 100% the only reason they bothered with Cyborg was because Ronda wanted that fight. When Cyborg signed it was the height of Rouseymania so I have no doubt everyone involved thought Rousey would have a right good chance - particularly Rousey. Of course, the UFC wanted Cyborg to very nearly kill herself first to make it happen, so made those catchweight fights with the hope she'd somehow make weight.

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It seems mad to think now but there’s was a time when I was actually 50/50 on who’d win out of Cyborg and Rousey. In hindsight now, I’d pick Cyborg in a heartbeat but at the time, pre-Holm headkick, it split opinion more than most would probably admit now.

I thought Rousey had a good shot at beating Cyborg back then. We didn’t know then that she was so mentally fragile. Pre-Holm, Rousey was a machine and had that aura and self belief. Holm shattered all that. And by the time she got in the cage with Nunes, I think Ronda was damaged goods mentally. Knowing what we know now about Nunes, I think she’d have always gave Ronda nightmares. But I think it would’ve at least been a bit more competitive a year earlier. 

In the end though, it’s all moot. Like anyone else, Ronda inevitably would’ve lost at some point. And whoever would’ve beaten her I think we’d have seen the same flouncing and hiding away. I was a huge fan (not as much as Dana clearly was) but it was really disappointing how she handled that. 

Edited by wandshogun09

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screen-shot-2015-10-27-at-11-59-18-am.jp

Like something from different dimension now, but prime Rousey really was something special. Everyone was on board. Not sure anyone has ever quite lost their aura in such a way as Rousey did after the Holm fight, where she looked completely exposed. You could see her in that fight, before the headkick, lose it mentally.

We've also seen with Joanna that the top level of the women's fight game is improving at an incredible speed year-to-year. Of course, Joanna has continued to improve too, so she's still a top fighter just not so far in front, but not the dinosaur Rousey looked like in her last two batterings. For me, that's as big a factor as any for Rousey's downfall. I mind Schaub saying when he was getting some, Rousey and her camp were very resistant to any sort of differing opinions, which led to her living in that weird bubble of her own aura, getting by on her incredible natural ability and Olympic-level judo. All the while Mr. Ed was stealing a living teaching her all manner of nonsense - even Rousey's Mum saw this huckster for what he was and got shut out because of her negative opinion.

I'll never forget Nunes pointing the finger at Rousey's coach saying something like "they made a judo expert believe she was a great boxer". I like Luke Thomas' take on it, which is Edmond had a driven Olympic-level athlete with a massive head start on almost all other women and he done absolutely nothing with it, or made her worse off which I think is the point Nunes made.

Anyway, my point is, never underestimate or downplay the role Edmond played in Rousey's downfall. Rousey should have listened to her Mum, of course, but Edmond is a true charlatan and his corner work during Rousey's last two fights exposed as much.

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