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UFC 232: Jones vs Gustafsson 2

Who wins and how?   

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Another thing that's slightly confusing to me, especially considering this is a pro wrasslin' board and everyone is supposedly all clued up on how fight sports work, is why anyone would want Jon Jones to lose this fight?

In an era where there's no Rousey, McG's fading slightly and there's no real stars y'all want possibly the most heat-drawing heel in the sport to lose to a curtain jerker like Gustafsson? Seriously?

That's like wanting Iraq-era Sgt Slaughter to lose a title fight to Tito Santana. What fucking good does that do?

Imagine for a second that Gustafsson wins. He catches Jones cold after being away for so long, something crazy like that. What then? Jones vs Lesnar? Gone. Jones vs DC? Gone. 

You all want Gustafsson standing in the cage with the belt mumbling on about how he's really keen to face Anthony Smith or Latifi next? At best we get a Jones vs Gusty rematch, which means that we'll not get the Jones vs DC bout at heavyweight.

Who the fuck doesn't want a smirking Jones standing there with the belt, mugging off DC while Rogan's eyes pop out of his head, and DC goes mental at cage side? If Jones wins we're sure of getting something awesome in his next fight! It'll either be DC at heavy or even Lesnar!

I think a couple of you could have done with a sub to ~DA MELTZ~ from Santa, clue you in a bit in how all this is supposed to work.

"I want Gustafsson to win because Jones is a drugs cheat and he should get his comeuppance. He's a bad man who drives erratically and who should be banned for 40 years from MMA."

Yeah, go and stand in the fucking corner with the rest of the dweebs. 

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Big Daddy Cool David out there fingering yer nan.

I feel the exact same about Floyd Mayweather (I'm sure you've mentioned you do too). The dude isn't out there playing a character of a wife beater, the fella is one. Jones hits a pregnant woman with his car and, apparently, feels little remorse about it etc. Seeing a legit shit bag get some comeuppance is wonderful. Of course, if Jones just wins then he'll maybe be a bigger draw, but you are also excluding the Jones factor, which is he's likely to go full OJ in the next year; who knows.

Seeing Jones get beat by an oaf like Gus makes it only that little bit sweeter. Mumble for me one more time Gus while I listen to Meltzer spend 5 minutes getting through his sentence.

Edited by ColinBollocks

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27 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

I feel the exact same about Floyd Mayweather (I'm sure you've mentioned you do too). The dude isn't out there playing a character of a wife beater, the fella is one. Jones hits a pregnant woman with his car and, apparently, feels little remorse about it etc. Seeing a legit shit bag get some comeuppance is wonderful. Of course, if Jones just wins then he'll maybe be a bigger draw, but you are also excluding the Jones factor, which is he's likely to go full OJ in the next year; who knows.

Here's the thing, Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and all-round bad egg, correct? However, throw him into a few movies and get a few gifs in circulation and he's the fucking darling buffoon of the fight world again. Everyone loves good ol' Iron Mike, right? Put the fucker on a t-shirt! 

Absolutely no one who follows mostly any sport really can take any kind of moral high ground against athletes who are total cunts.

We are the very people who put these scumbags where they are. Be it football with John Terry and his racist "bantz" which does nothing to his standing as a Chelsea legend, or MMA and McG and his choice of phrase, among others.

You think it's right and correct that we can then go on to pick and choose which scumbags we want to see get their comeuppance? 

Or is it a case of certain levels of scumbaggery being okay in comparison to others?

But yeah, we're watching a sport where people use homophobic, racist, culturally-insensitive remarks with alarming regularity. Even good ol' Gustafsson has done time in jail for aggravated assault. 

Bottom line is, if the people on this forum can bang on about "separating the man from the performer" when it comes to their favourite fake fighters, then we can surely do it for those who trade blows legit, can't we? I was often told just that when I raised the issues McG has had over the years. 

A Gustafsson win provides fuck all except a little fuzzy feeling in the tummy's of a few fans who think that Jones losing a fight that he stands to make a shitload of dough from is somehow some sort of comeuppance.

Personally, I want to see him win so we get some bigger fights in the future. Same with McG, get that fucker back in the game as well now and give us all something to gawk at while we drink our beer.

Let's be honest, if we were really the type of folks who gave a fuck about seeing scumbags and arseholes get their comeuppance we wouldn't be tuning in to watch them fight, or pretend to fight, on a regular basis. We'd be spending our time doing stuff that other, more intelligent people do.

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I want Jones to lose because he’s a fucking cunt and I don’t like him. That’s it. Nothing more to it. He’s an unlikeable, smarmy, condescending, nasty, infuriatingly talented prick and I’d like to see him get beat. Fuck what’s ‘good for business’. You can know how fight sports work all you want but I didn’t start watching MMA because I wanted to see a spike in PPV numbers or any of that bollocks. I get all that but when it comes to a big fight where I like one and loathe the other, I’m going to be rooting for my guy. Not the dickhead in the other corner just because he moves the needle (but it only has a picogram’s worth in it) more. I’ve always thought that’s a bit of an odd way of rooting for fighters. ‘Well I like A more and I can’t stand that horrible cunt B. But B is the star and makes this $4billion company even richer. Fuck it I hope B wins’. I’ve always been consistent with this. It’s why I cheered on Shane Carwin smashing Frank Mir to pieces in 2010, when it would’ve been ‘better for business’ if Mir won and set up Lesnar vs Mir 3. Looking back, I wish we got the Lesnar-Mir rubber match but at the time I wasn’t about to be rooting for Wank Frank, under any circumstances. 

I maybe understand if the guy you don’t like winning is the more interesting outcome fight-wise but in this case, it’s not really. If Jones wins again, what? There’s nothing left to do at 205. There’s no guarantee Brock fights again. I’m not convinced he does, to be honest. There’s Cain but for that to happen Cain’s got to make it to the cage to fight Ngannou first, then beat Ngannou, then make it through another camp in one piece, then make it to the cage again. How confident are we that that all happens? If Gus beats Jones though, it’s way more interesting. Shakes up the division, and the sport really, triggers a huge rubber match and for the first time we see a Jon Jones having to come back from a loss and with a narrative that the drug cheat got beat. A beaten and disgraced Jones coming for redemption against the man that beat him is absolutely the most interesting way this could possibly go. 

And now Gustafsson is a curtain jerker? I thought you liked Gus, David? I can’t keep up with this shit anymore. And if we’re criticising him for the Glover fight, they both fought Glover. And what was more impressive? Gus dominating and then destroying Glover with the uppercuts of doom, or Jones outpointing Glover and poking him in the eyes a lot? That’s bad when DC does it to Stipe but I’m guessing Jones gets a pass for that like everything else. 

If disliking a complete bellend makes me a dweeb then I’ll happily accept being Ned Flanders. But supporting a fucking arsehole like Jones doesn’t make you cool for liking the heel either. And again, if Conor McGregor had spoken to a female journalist the same way Jones did yesterday you’d be calling him every cunt under the sun. You know you would. And you’d be right. But where’s the consistency? 

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At this point, I feel like I'm practically done with the UFC. I couldn't give a fuck whether they have big matches going forward. I don't even feel like watching tonight's show. In an ideal world, Jones would get knocked out cold, they'd announce before the show ends that he's been popped by VADA for another substance and then they'd announce this was the season finale and close up shop. I'd probably prefer to just read about it on Twitter, too. I don't feel like giving these scumbags my time.

I don't know if I'm just getting older and therefore have less tolerance for shady shit like this, or if becoming a father changed things. Perhaps it's just the perfect storm of falling out of love with the sport at the same time as they seem to be getting scummier, but either way, I can't be arsed anymore. If the purpose of a press conference is to sell tickets and pay per views then I don't think they've ever done a worse job. Jones laughing and glancing up to Dana with a dickhead grin as he talks to a reporter like that? And Dana does nothing? They can all get fucked.

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21 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

I want Jones to lose because he’s a fucking cunt and I don’t like him.

And that's fair enough. I'm indifferent to both of them really, so I'll be rooting for what's best for business, and that's a Jones win. My interest in Jones vs DC III or jones vs Lesnar is far greater than my dislike for a guy that I don't know.

23 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

And now Gustafsson is a curtain jerker? I thought you liked Gus, David?

I do like him, but let's not pretend that anyone really gives a fuck about him in the grand scheme of things. He's just another bland nobody, isn't he?

24 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

And if we’re criticising him for the Glover fight, they both fought Glover. And what was more impressive? Gus dominating and then destroying Glover with the uppercuts of doom, or Jones outpointing Glover and poking him in the eyes a lot?

Well, Jones fought Glover when Glover was considered a force. Gustafsson fought him three years later when he was on the slide and not the mythical Tyson-esque figure many thought he was.

24 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

That’s bad when DC does it to Stipe but I’m guessing Jones gets a pass for that like everything else.

It's so unfair, isn't it?

25 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

But supporting a fucking arsehole like Jones doesn’t make you cool for liking the heel either.

I'm cool for many reasons, but supporting Jones isn't one of them. I just happen to like the fact he made DC cry, that's all. Aside from that, I think a win for Jones provides more interesting fights in the future. It really is as simple as that.

26 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

And again, if Conor McGregor had spoken to a female journalist the same way Jones did yesterday you’d be calling him every cunt under the sun. You know you would. And you’d be right. But where’s the consistency?

To be fair, I've never said that Jones wasn't a cunt, have I? It just so happens he's a cunt that I want to win this fight purely for future entertainment purposes. As I've said before, when you're talking about a "sport" where people try to punch and kick each other in the head there really is no place for moral outrage. I've been down that road before and it doesn't make single bit of difference.

24 minutes ago, Supremo said:

At this point, I feel like I'm practically done with the UFC. I couldn't give a fuck whether they have big matches going forward.

Don't give us that, you'll be back just as excited as ever when the next McG/Diaz or Lesnar fight is announced, and you know it.

You'll also tune in to watch the main event this weekend because, in the back of your mind, you're wondering if Gustafsson can pull off the big win. I dislike Dana as much as the next guy, and I think the company is on a decline, but he knows that he has people like you and me in his back pocket.

That's just how it is.

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2 hours ago, David said:

 

I do like him, but let's not pretend that anyone really gives a fuck about him in the grand scheme of things. He's just another bland nobody, isn't he.

It was 5 years ago but Gustafsson topped a poll of 11 million votes to be on the front cover of the UFC video game. He's also headlined 4 of the 5 shows he'd fought on since. He's not a PPV megastar (but few are) but he's at the top end of the scale in terms of popularity in the UFC, so i find that assessment a little harsh. A win makes him a bigger star and creates a potential rubber match with Jones which would be huge.

I agree with wand. in not following the sport and thinking about 'whats best for business' though, you have to focus on the hear and now and ive found that things in MMA have a weird way of working themselves out in the long run.

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5 hours ago, David said:

You think it's right and correct that we can then go on to pick and choose which scumbags we want to see get their comeuppance? 

Or is it a case of certain levels of scumbaggery being okay in comparison to others?

But yeah, we're watching a sport where people use homophobic, racist, culturally-insensitive remarks with alarming regularity. Even good ol' Gustafsson has done time in jail for aggravated assault. 

Amazingly, I only found out about this last night. Information about it apparently leaked in 2014. The UFC had told Gusty to keep quiet about it. The details are grim as fuck:

Here are some translated quotes:

Quote

 

Page 10 Alexander admits jumping a man and his girlfriend unknown to him other than that the man was friends with a man who had been in a scoffold with Alexanders friend two years earlier. Sentenced for obstruction of justice (threatening and beating the plaintiff) Sentenced for assault against a man and a woman There are like 10 people in these sentences that he has beat up.

I'll quote sentence B3129-06: Alexander sentenced for "aggravated assault". Plaintiff and girlfriend had been at restaurant, meets Alexander with friends afterwards. Alexander goes up to him and asks:"Have you talked shit with person X?" In which the plaintiff says No. According to Alexander his eyes then went dark. Beats the man to the ground, kicks him in the head while unconscious

Sentence B2992-05: Man with girlfriend leaves clothes by public pier while bathing, Sees Alexander Gustafsson with friends going through their clothes. Alexander is seen dropping a white package of cigarettes on the ground while the woman's white cigarette package from her clothes is missing. The couple decides to just leave but when they do, the woman says "it's wrong to steal from bathing peoples' clothes". Alexander then lifts her up and throws her on the wooden pier, when she recovers from the chock she sees Alexander sitting upon her boyfriend head-butting him.

 

So aye, Gusty isn't exactly the patron saint of MMA. I don't expect every MMA fighter to be GSP or anything. Most top-level fighters are flawed geniuses, even the ones that are decent human beings overall. But really, no one involved in this rivalry has the moral high-ground to a major extent. 

I still want Gusty to win because at least he seemingly learnt from his mistakes as a teenager. Also, I just prefer him to Jones if I am being honest. His straight talking approach has been refreshing this week. Whereas Jones, Dana and DC have all been unpleasant to listen to. Cringe-worthy stuff from all three. 

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Just watched the weigh in. Balls are tingling. You could grate cheese on my ballbag right now. With everything going on I completely forgot most of these fights were happening. This is genuinely one of the best and most stacked cards of the year and we’ve all been talking about fucking grains of salt and Olympic sized swimming pools and picograms. We really haven’t done this card justice. 

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Jon Jones vs Alexander Gustafsson 2 is actually happening then. I think. Or can Jones outdo himself and get a fight cancelled on the fucking day of? Nah I think it’s going ahead. Regardless of all the controversy this week, I’m expecting a great fight tonight. It wants to be considering the total shit show this thing has become. I think it will be though. I think the combination of the grudge and how the first fight went, the gold on the line, both guys coming off layoffs and having something to prove, and now the added layer of intensity with the drug test bollocks. It all just adds up to a white hot matchup. 

Jones by decision is my thinking. Sadly. I’d love to be wrong and Gus waffles him and knocks him out but I don’t see it happening. But like I said elsewhere, I do actually believe Jones took it lightly and didn’t train much the first time they fought back in 2013. And I still had him winning. This time I think he wins more clearly. I don’t think he’ll finish Gus. He might, he nearly did last time, but I think Gus toughs it out and goes the distance. I think it’ll be an exciting fight but it’s not likely to be as good as the first. If it is we’re really in for a treat. Got Jones winning fairly clearly on points but it’ll still be electric given who’s involved, the backstory and the new controversy. 

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Cris Cyborg vs Amanda Nunes is a hell of a fight. Like (I think) WeeAl said, this has been criminally overlooked. On paper this is by far the biggest and best women’s fight in MMA history easy. I know Ronda was a bigger star than both but she never had a fight that was like this. This is champ vs champ and it’s two absolute wrecking balls who, between them, have taken out pretty much every single relevant name in the women’s game. It’s a brilliant fight styles-wise and the winner goes down as the GOAT of WMMA. 

I’m going to be obvious and go Cyborg by KO/TKO. Can see it being a bit of a war while it lasts though. I don’t think it’ll be as easy as some are making out. Cyborg’s toughest MMA fight so far was Holly Holm. This is a totally different fight in that I think Nunes’ style is more made for Cyborg because she’s so aggressive. That’s why I fancy the finish here. But what Nunes has that Holm doesn’t typically possess is that power in her hands. We don’t know how that will carry up to 145 but I did notice Nunes looked no smaller than Cyborg at the weigh in. Height wise they’re similar and Nunes looked thicker than Cyborg and strong. If she connects clean, who knows? I think we get a chaotic first round and both take their lumps but I see Cyborg holding up better and stopping Nunes in the 2nd or 3rd. 

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Carlos Condit vs Michael Chiesa has been a bit of a mystery to me since it was announced. Mainly because Condit has been on the verge of retirement for a while now and hasn’t quite seemed at the races in his last couple of fights. Also, this is Chiesa’s debut at 170. Fuck knows what we’re getting. 

Condit by KO/TKO. Maybe heart over head here but sod it. I think Chiesa is the kind of fighter Condit can still look good against. Probably means nothing but Condit had the classic Natural Born Killer mean mug on at the weigh in. The face he used to have before fights when he was a savage. The look Dan Hardy described as a “face like he’s chewing a wasp” before they fought. Haven’t seen him look that grumpy in a long time. Gives me hope that the old NBK is back. Even for one night only. RIP Chiesa. 

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Ilir Latifi vs Corey Anderson is pretty 50/50. These two are in that spot at 205 where they’re middle of the pack but on a given night could spring a surprise here or there. Never going to win the big one but both solid gatekeepers. 

Latifi by submission is my prediction and hope. Really like Latifi. Although I did feel bad for Anderson reading his tweets when this show got moved to LA. I can’t go against the ‘Sledgehammer’. It’s either going to be a Latifi stoppage or an Anderson decision IMO. Fancying Latifi to catch him in that guillotine for some reason. 

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Chad Mendes vs Alexander Volkanovski opens the PPV. Another pretty tough call. Volkanovski has looked tremendous so far but this is definitely his big test. I believe it’s his PPV debut and he’s in with a top 145er and former title challenger who’s had his moments against the likes of Aldo and McGregor. It’s also a big one for Mendes. He came back from that USADA suspension and there were questions on him. We didn’t really get those questions answered in his first fight back as he just walloped Myles Jury in a round. This fight should show us more where he stands going into 2019. 

It’s almost a toss up but I like Volkanovski on points here. Can see it being a tough, gruelling battle but I think the Hulk comes through with the W. 

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Andrei Arlovski vs Walt Harris is another one that I could easily see swinging either way. The heavyweights are a bit of a lottery at the best of times because of their size and power. With the little MMA gloves there’s zero margin for error. 

Ummmm. Harris by KO. Just a feeling. Skills-wise I think Arlovski is superior. Even at this late stage of his career. But I just don’t have much confidence in him now. He did go 3 hard rounds with Tuivasa and ate his shots so you’d think he’d be alright with a lesser striker in Harris. But I’ve got a feeling Harris clips him early and closes the show. 

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Cat Zingano vs Megan Anderson is a fight I forgot all about. This surely sets up the winner for a title shot at 145 against probably Cyborg. Some prize, eh? Haven’t seen a great deal of Anderson but what I have seen I think there’s potential there. Her height and range for the weight, striking looks good. She got exposed in the grappling by Holly Holm last time out though. And with Zingano being a BJJ artist at heart, she’ll have no doubt taken notes on that and will be out to exploit that weakness here. 

But I’m going with Anderson by KO/TKO. I’d love to see Cat win but I’ve got a bad feeling she’s going to get battered here. I think people are expecting a really competitive fight here but I’ve got this gut feeling Anderson is going to smash her. Don’t know why. Think it’s a combination of how Anderson’s striking looked early against Holm (who’s a much better striker than Cat) or how unconvinced I was by Cat’s win last time. Just a bad feeling she’s getting a beatdown. 

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Douglas Silva De Andrade vs Petr Yan. Look at that mullet on De Andrade, will you! :laugh: This is a little bit of a shot in the dark for me. I’ve been singing Yan’s praises on here since his UFC debut. I think he’s really good, excellent striking. I like the look of him. De Andrade is a tricky, crafty little fuck though. It’s the type of test Yan has to pass but it’s definitely a potential banana skin. 

Balls. I’ll have Yan by decision. As long as he can avoid Timmy Mullet’s takedowns I think he’ll be way too slick on the feet and will take a fairly comfy decision. 

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BJ Penn vs Ryan Hall...fucking hell. I don’t know. I just don’t know. How the hell do you call this? If BJ can keep it standing, even now, he should win. But does he? Even if he keeps it on the feet, does he pull the trigger? I could easily see him stuffing takedowns but just standing there while Hall outstrikes him by kicking his shins from the butt-scoot position. This is going one of a couple of ways, isn’t it? Either a depressing and frustrating dud or a pleasant surprise where it’s basically Metamoris in a cage with bit of striking. 

Hall on points for me. Not sure how it goes but not expecting much from Penn. This is actually maybe the only possible fight I’m not that against Penn having though. Purely for the fact Hall is a complete grappler and shouldn’t beat Penn up too much. Could rip his knee apart though :/ 

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Nathaniel Wood vs Andre Ewell could be a cracking fight. Wood’s one to keep an eye on. His nickname is ‘The Prospect’, for fuck’s sake. Former Cage Warriors champ. Looked great submitting Johnny Eduardo in his UFC debut. And Ewell looks promising himself. Beat Renan Barão in his UFC debut and looked pretty solid from what I remember. 

They both look good but I haven’t seen enough of these two to make a real educated guess. I’ll go Wood by submission though. 

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Uriah Hall vs Bevon Lewis is another one where I’m going in blind. Obviously I’m well familiar with Hall but I’ve never seen Lewis. He’s undefeated at 6-0, a Jackson-Wink fighter and was on Dana’s Contender thing. All sounds good so far. But this is new territory and Hall’s been in the trenches.

Hall by KO. I’ll go crazy and say the highlight reel kind. Maybe some spinning shit. 

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Curtis Millender vs Siyar Bahadurzada might be fireworks. These two had a heated staredown. I think this will mostly be a standup battle. Maybe one of them will try to mix it up but striking is their bread and butter. 

Millender by decision here. Siyar is a banger so Millender will have to be weary of that but I think he’s the way better striker technically. As long as he avoids getting clattered with one of those haymakers I see him picking Siyar apart myself. I think Millender is a legitimate prospect for the future. 

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Brian Kelleher vs Montel Jackson is just there down on Fight Pass but even that could be a good scrap. Kelleher is a tough bastard, went to war with Lineker, submitted BJJ black belt Iuri Alcântara and nearly TKOd Barão. He’s a decent fighter. Jackson is 6-1 and trains under ex UFC fighter Eric Schafer. That’s all I can find. I’ll go Kelleher by TKO. He’s had way more experience and against much better opposition. 

Full predictions;

Jon Jones by Decision 

Cris Cyborg by KO/TKO 

Carlos Condit by KO/TKO 

Ilir Latifi by Submission 

Alexander Volkanovski by Decision 

Walt Harris by KO/TKO 

Megan Anderson by KO/TKO 

Petr Yan by Decision 

Ryan Hall by Decision 

Nathaniel Wood by Submission 

Uriah Hall by KO/TKO 

Curtis Millender by Decision 

Brian Kelleher by KO/TKO

Edited by wandshogun09

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I found this article interesting - http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/The-Film-Room-Ideal-Adjustments-for-Jon-Jones-Alexander-Gustafsson-147515

The author thinks that Gusty has only minor adjustments to make from the first fight, and that the fight should be as close as the first:

Quote

Although the odds suggest Jones should run away with this one, expect this to be just as close as the first fight. Gustafsson was the first opponent to match Jones’ range and not play into his style, and if it was not for a miraculous mid-fight game plan change, “Bones” most likely would have lost. Since Jones struggled with the range the first time, it would be nice to see him try to get the fight to the ground or in the clinch, where Gustafsson historically struggles. As for Gustafsson, he should employ the exact same game plan with some minor changes, like being more aggressive early on while trying to limit some of his lateral movement and running away to save his cardio for the later rounds.

I mostly agree. I think Gusty matches up against Jones better than any other 205'er. I think Jones is going to win this evening. But I expect the fight to be very competitive while it lasts. I don't foresee a shutout. Jones finishing Gusty between rounds 3-5, or Jones edging it on the scorecards are the two most likely outcomes. With Gusty winning on points being the next most likely outcome. 

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cracking post wand. 

yep, i think everyones neglecting just how stacked a card this is, some cracking stuff top to bottom.

Im really looking forward to Penn/Hall. It feels like an old school UFC fight. It would be pretty cool if it hit the hat and we BJ have a full on BJJ style MMA fight. 

Megan Anderson too, she just does it for me 😍

Edited by Egg Shen

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1 hour ago, Egg Shen said:

Megan Anderson too, she just does it for me 

I’m more of a Cat Zingano man myself. 

34 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

Aye. Wand better not punch his wife in the tit

Who do you think I am, Mr Ostovich or something? 

Edited by wandshogun09
Sorry Keith, he hasn’t Jonesed. Yet.

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I'm going to try to watch this live as it's one of the biggest cards of the year with I would say from top to bottom one of the strongest fight cards in a long time.

The weigh ins just made me want to see jones on his back koed tonight with his disrespectful not even looking at him stair down, the guys such an unlikeable cunt 

 

But yeah what a card 

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