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UFC 232: Jones vs Gustafsson 2

Who wins and how?   

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USADA have proved themselves to be a waste of time and untrustworthy during this whole Jones saga. It's ruined their reputation in the sport for the other fighters that are at their mercy. If they end up in a similar case as Jones, they know they are likely to get treated way more harshly. 

I'm not on a high horse by any means about drug taking in sport. All sports are dirty, and I'm not going to be naive and think that the athletes that get caught are definitely the cheaters and the ones that don't, aren't. Football, for one, is a sport that I just don't believe could possibly be as clean as it lets on that it is, hardly anyone ever gets caught but yet the players are better athletes year after year. The competitive nature of these athletes to be the best and make money, leave it as something that some feel they need to do, and many I'm sure, get away with, whilst some innocent people end up flagged. 

At the end of the day this is a forum that is full of people who loved 1980's WWF and Pride, two of the dirtiest companies about. If guys want to take PED's to make them better at their field of work, and I'm willing to be entertained by these same people, then I can't really judge them. It's the disclosure nature of it that is the story. The athletes should be equal in how they are treated and they aren't. The suspensions are made up on the fly. Leeway is given in some cases for one person for the same excuse as another person will have given that hasn't gotten that same lleeway. I know if I was being piss tested at 6am and I felt I wasn't being treated the same as the person that I was competing  against, that I wouldn't have any faith in the job the drug testing agency was doing. 

Trace amounts aren't a reason to think 'ah it doesn't matter because it was so little', trace amounts are a fail. In a drug test, if you have trace amounts it means that you had larger amounts in your system at a different time. It's not about how much, it's about that the substance was there at all. 

Jon Jones was given fifteen months to provide a reason why the Turinabol was in his system, from any kind of tainted supplement or other means. He couldn't do it. He got a reduced sentence even though it wasn't a first offence. Other fighters, for first offences, with the same levels of trace amounts have been given two year suspensions, or not been given the endorsement of the athletic commission's/USADA/UFC. 

Just decide to be dirty or clean, the murkiness of the cover-ups and conspiracies helps nobody and makes the sport seem seedier than it is already viewed in some quarters. Either try to catch the people cheating, or go back to the old way of testing where you pay lip service to it, by holding basic, ineffective testing. Either way, I personally don't particularly mind, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. So long as it feels like when someone is caught, that it means the same as when another person is caught. That, I'm sure, would feel the most fair. 

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On 12/25/2018 at 2:13 AM, WeeAl said:

Trace amounts aren't a reason to think 'ah it doesn't matter because it was so little', trace amounts are a fail.

And it was a fail, when he initially failed the test, wasn't it? The medical experts are saying that they're very confident that the even lesser trace amounts at the moment are the residue left over from previous testing periods. Should he be punished twice for the same crime? is that how it should work?

On 12/25/2018 at 2:13 AM, WeeAl said:

In a drug test, if you have trace amounts it means that you had larger amounts in your system at a different time

Not at all.

On 12/25/2018 at 2:13 AM, WeeAl said:

Jon Jones was given fifteen months to provide a reason why the Turinabol was in his system, from any kind of tainted supplement or other means. He couldn't do it. He got a reduced sentence even though it wasn't a first offence. Other fighters, for first offences, with the same levels of trace amounts have been given two year suspensions, or not been given the endorsement of the athletic commission's/USADA/UFC. 

Why did he get that reduced sentence though? It's not as if the independent arbitrator just said "fuck it, it's Bones Jones, just let it slide, y'all," is it?

Much like you see in the legal world, it's not as simple as that. For ages now I've been saying that one of the issues I had with USADA was their "one size fits all" approach to how they punish athletes who have popped for a banned substance. Personally, I'm happy to see them apply some common sense to how they do things, and I really hope they continue down this route.

They should take into account the particular substance that's flagged up, and how much was in the persons system, as well as other mitigating factors.

Most knuckleheads just hear "Jones popped for a banned substance" and assume he's jacked up to the gills and 'roided out his nut. It's incredibly tiresome.

Much as we see in the legal world, there is a certain amount of leeway given if the accused provides assistance to authorities to carry out the investigation. Jones did just that in his last situation.

They then took into account Jones "degree of fault," which is key for me. This is where USADA really need to start sorting their shit out, because not all test failures are the same.

In the lead-up to UFC 214 Jones was tested eight times over a ten month period and came back clean in all but one, and the one he failed was the only one that he actually knew about in advance!

Also, it wasn't even USADA who made the decision on how long Jones should be suspended for, it was an independent arbitrator. A highly-respected sports law Professor and member of the international court of arbitration for sport called Richard H McLaren.

We're talking about a guy who was on the WADA board that investigated allegations of state-sponsored doping in Russian sports, and who played a key part in the 2007 investigation into drug use in Major League Baseball.

What possible reason would someone with that kind of track record, who has went after US Olympic track runners, Russian athletes and Major League Baseball superstar household names in the past have to compromise his ethics? all for some cage fighter in a niche sport that the real world doesn't give a fuck about?

Come on, seriously? Those who are crying about conspiracies probably don't know what the fuck they're talking about, and assume that it's the UFC who's letting it slide because Jones is a money maker for the company. In reality, the decision was made by one of the most credible figures in the industry, and someone who is multiple degrees removed from the UFC and the MMA world as a whole.

Hopefully we see this kind of approach continue.

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16 minutes ago, David said:

The medical experts are saying that they're very confident that the even lesser trace amounts at the moment are the residue left over from previous testing periods. Should he be punished twice for the same crime? is that how it should work?

It's unclear as to whether it was a lesser trace than last time. The first time he tested positive for Turinabol, Jones’s sample had a concentration of 20-80 picograms. This time 60 picograms of oral Turinabol metabolite was found in Jones’ system.

Of course, that doesn't mean it isn't a residue amount left over from a previous time he used Turinabol. There is little concrete evidence that Jones has injected Turinabol in recent months. However, Jones has a degree of accountability for allowing the drug to enter his body in the first place. Had he not injected a drug that few seem to understand the effects of, then none of this would be an issue. And there are too many red flags for me to believe he has never dabbled purposefully. 

 

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Literally had no idea until just now that BJ Penn is fighting on Saturday. What a shit show.

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For me it's not even about the fact that trace amounts have shown up thats a issue and it should be delt with.

What really has blown my mind is this happened and they have decided to move a ppv to a different location the week of the fight.... That's fucked up as a whole but take into account it's Christmas and people are now thousands of pounds out of pocket because they have dropped this move like it's nothing and basically said deal with it...... 

If that isn't a total bullshit call completely treating your fans like they are not a priority as long as Jones gets in that cage......but they didn't even tell the fucking fighters on the card that the location had changed they all found out on the Internet like everyone else...... 

 

All this bullshit disrespect to the fans your staff and your fighters so 1 man/fighter can have his fight.

Im all for do your time and then be able to look at coming back once served your punishment. But getting pulled for doping and all the other jon Jones crap and then the red carpet being just rolled out time and time again  after he fucks up is mental.

Don't cheat, take drugs, get caught.............but if you do and your main event don't worry about it take your suspension put your feet up and you will be put right back where you were 

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7 hours ago, Supremo said:

Literally had no idea until just now that BJ Penn is fighting on Saturday. What a shit show.

yeh, its been some decline for BJ. On the plus side he's fighting someone who should have no interest in striking, so if BJ keeps it on the feet he should beat Ryan Hall. 

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20 hours ago, Supremo said:

Literally had no idea until just now that BJ Penn is fighting on Saturday

I get the feeling BJ will find out on about Wednesday next week.

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Remember that episode of The Office where David Brent delivers "good news" and "bad news" to his staff, completely misreading the situation like a prick?

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Just watched the press conference and I've never felt more uncomfortable and slightly ashamed to be a fan of the ufc.

Is there anything in place to help the fighter out as they will now be paying more taxes - (dana) no. Who's going to pay my taxes? 

The way that woman reporter was talked to and treated by both dana and jon Jones was disgusting.

Then as last note dana white basically treating Jones like he's already won and completely disrespecting gustafsson to his face.

Dana white the man that went on espn the other week to call out another promoter for being unprofessional ect 

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6 hours ago, Kfogg1991 said:

Just watched the press conference and I've never felt more uncomfortable and slightly ashamed to be a fan of the ufc.

Is there anything in place to help the fighter out as they will now be paying more taxes - (dana) no. Who's going to pay my taxes? 

The way that woman reporter was talked to and treated by both dana and jon Jones was disgusting.

Then as last note dana white basically treating Jones like he's already won and completely disrespecting gustafsson to his face.

Dana white the man that went on espn the other week to call out another promoter for being unprofessional ect 

This was kinda my feelings spot on. In the year where #metoo movement has dominated headlines world wide, the scene with the reporter was extremely uncomfortable, they literally just dismissed her like she was nothing.

 

"Sit down"

"I am sat down"

 

Just embarrassing.

 

I liked how Gustafsson said whilst sat next to Dana its bad for the company.

 

It does feel like Dana is prepared to throw everything and everyone under the bus to keep Jones at the top. When Jones screws up again, Dana will again do the media rounds saying his time within the company is over.

 

(For the record, I don't think Jones will get popped again, he will do something criminal)

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Both Dana and Jon came across ridiculously bad in that press conference. Two scumbags refusing to answer for their shit actions. Why invite the press to ask questions if you don't want to answer them?

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