UFC 232: Jones vs Gustafsson 2

[wandshogun09]

Although they’re both absolute bellends, at least when McGregor signs to fight, the fight happens. You can’t rely on Jones to do anything but fuck up. Even when he signs a contract, even when it gets to fight week, or fucking 2 days before the fight, you know there’s a solid chance the fight still falls apart. 

It’s so frustrating. He genuinely might be the best and most gifted fighter there’s ever been in MMA. But the cunt can’t get out of his own way. Him keep pissing about with PEDs is odd because physically he probably never needed them. He’s freakishly talented anyway. But at some point he dabbled and I guess it became a mental thing then, like he doesn’t feel he’ll be as invincible without them. Fuck knows. But it’s going to put doubts on his whole legacy when it’s all said and done. It’s why I still rate GSP as the GOAT over Jones and Silva. As great as those two are/were, they’ve kind of disqualified themselves from the conversation for me. Not that any of them probably care but it’s something he’ll probably regret when he’s old and retired and people question if he was really the best or just a big dirty cheater. 

[David]

Thing is @wandshogun09, it's not necessarily a case of choosing to try PED's. 

For most of these guys, especially at the very top level, they're looking to get every legal advantage they can get, and when you play it that close to the line, as many of these guys do, there's every chance you'll find yourself taking a supplement (or more often a mixture of supplements) that can cause a red flag.

From the grappling world and the people I know involved in that it would surprise you how many of these guys who have been busted are being honest when they say they didn't mean to take anything. It's usually a case of two supplements not mixing well and something popping up, especially when you hear about these miniscule trace amounts.

If we're expecting fighters to train as they do on a daily basis, with all the aches, pains and knocks they take, not pull out of fights, make their media commitments, and perform at the top level while not taking the odd risk with supposedly legal supplements then we're not being fair. 

Obviously that doesn't go for anyone found to be cheating without a shadow of a doubt.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah of course there’ll be times when guys get flagged and they’re genuinely unaware they’ve taken anything dodgy. But with Jones, how many times can it happen? There’s just been too many things with him now, as WeeAl pointed out before. If it was an isolated incident I’d give him the benefit of the doubt, but nobody has this much bad luck with tainted supplements.

I wonder how Luke Thomas will defend this? He always finds a way where Jones is concerned. 

[David]

1 minute ago, wandshogun09 said:

Yeah of course there’ll be times when guys get flagged and they’re genuinely unaware they’ve taken anything dodgy. But with Jones, how many times can it happen? There’s just been too many things with him now, as WeeAl pointed out before. If it was an isolated incident I’d give him the benefit of the doubt, but nobody has this much bad luck with tainted supplements.

I wonder how Luke Thomas will defend this? He always finds a way where Jones is concerned. 

Well, I have heard it said that USADA go about their business in such a way as to cause problems in their own right, much like WADA;

Quote

 

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) was set up in 1999 by the International Olympic Committee and publishes the list of banned substances and monitors drug use in sport through random tests.

In a review of some of the practices and procedures used by WADA, a leading sports scientist from the USA and a top marathon coach from the UK have identified major problems that they believe will lead to innocent athletes paying the price for a flawed anti-doping system.

Key to their finding was a lack of scientific evidence and protocol at the heart of WADA’s operations.

“Drug testing and classification should be a scientific affair, unfortunately WADA appears to have little to no understanding of the criteria for science,” said Dr Brent Rushall from San Diego State University, a four-time Olympic Team psychologist for Canada, who co-wrote the article with Max Jones, a multiple age-group world-record holding runner who has studied the drugs in sport movement.

“The actions and scope of WADA are causes for grave concern for the anti-drugs in sport movement. It is inevitable that if WADA continues its practices, professional athletes will be driven out of the Olympic Games.”

Problems identified by the authors include:

* Substances included in WADA’s banned list are based on speculation rather than scientific evidence
* WADA’s clandestine sample collection procedures appear to ignore basic scientific guidelines
* The way WADA lists banned substances does not conform to usual scientific practice, leading to confusion for coaches and athletes

The authors cite the hysteria surrounding Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) as an example of WADA’s poor use of science. There is no consistent evidence to suggest that AAS directly enhance sports performance, yet they remain a key feature of the WADA banned substance list.

WADA’s clandestine testing procedures appear to ignore basic scientific protocols. One high profile example of this was the former British middle-distance runner, Diane Modahl, whose urine sample was left at room temperature for more than 48 hours – allowing bacteria to change the nature of the sample.

“WADA’s procedures for collecting and analysing samples do not usually follow the minimal guidelines for preserving the integrity of samples,” said Dr Rushall.

“Similarly, the WADA banned-substances list is falsely assumed to include all of the substances that enhance sporting performance. That assumption is false. The WADA method of adding substances to its banned list appears to be based on speculation.

“Athletes are threatened and punished on the basis of the false premises involved in the inclusion of substances and methods on the WADA banned list.”

Max Jones added: “Sport will change, possibly forever, because of the actions of WADA.”

“The activities of WADA and its affiliates, having gone unquestioned for so long by governments, the media and the public, need to be exposed, and a better anti-doping agency installed in its place, one which is ethically based and accountable to the world’s finest athletes.”

 

A lot of that, particularly the bolded parts, are applicable to USADA as well I think.

[MrK]

3 hours ago, jimufctna24 said:

But I think there are two possibilities. 

A) Jones used Turinabol at some point before 2018 and is still reaping the consequences of it. 

B) He's used it again and USADA are covering for him. This theory is gaining traction as some are still suspicious about Lesnar's test going missing from USADA's database. It's also notable that Jones didn't sign up to VADA testing. 

I’m maybe being naive but surely both of those possibilities give Jon Jones an advantage going in to the fight?

If the Turinabol is still in his system from 2017 then his body is still reaping the benefits of the drug and the fight needs called off?

[David]

We're talking about a sample the size of one-50 millionth of a grain of sand for fuck sake, it's hardly as though he's Drago in Rocky IV!

[wandshogun09]

You’re right there are definitely flaws. But why’s it always Jones who keeps falling victim to it? I know there have been other cases where they’ve had to lift suspensions and fighters have been cleared but this is the third time (I think?) Jones has been flagged now. What’s the chances of him being innocent and wrongly flagged three times?! I’m not buying it. Once, maybe. Twice, most probably guilty. Thrice...yeah fuck off, Jon. 

I just think if it was nearly anyone else getting three failures they’d be unanimously crucified. I know Jones is a special fighter but there’s too much to overlook now. If you’d been wrongly flagged once, and especially twice, then surely you’d be meticulously vigilant with what you put into your body going forwards. But here we are again.  

[David]

Well, this time the explanation has been made pretty clear, hasn't it? I've been drunk for two days now and even I can understand it.

Also, in fairness to Jones he's reached out to a lot of fans who'd booked flights and tickets from Sweden and further afield and sorted their situation from his own pocket, which is something he didn't need to do. That's the mark of a true gentleman.

Didn't see that fraud DC looking to hook any brothers up with flights or tickets, did we? The fat twat.

[ColinBollocks]

He'll probably book those 6 folk in a EasyHotel, the swine.

I'm just delighted the fight is still on. Jones being a shady prick is just him being himself. All is well with the world if Gus twats him and shags his missus.

[wandshogun09]

@David Nah however we dress it up, three failures are three failures. If this was McGregor in the same situation I think your posts on the matter would have a slightly different tone somehow. 

And why would DC being “hooking brothers up”? It’s Jones who caused this mess. It’s not up to Cormier to right that wrong. It should all be coming out of poor innocent Jon’s fight purse. Not DC’s Mr Kipling fund. 

[jimufctna24]

28 minutes ago, MrK said:

I’m maybe being naive but surely both of those possibilities give Jon Jones an advantage going in to the fight?

If the Turinabol is still in his system from 2017 then his body is still reaping the benefits of the drug and the fight needs called off?

The official word is that it won't give him any sort of performance advantage. 

 

19 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

But why’s it always Jones who keeps falling victim to it? I know there have been other cases where they’ve had to lift suspensions and fighters have been cleared but this is the third time (I think?) Jones has been flagged now. What’s the chances of him being innocent and wrongly flagged three times?! I’m not buying it. Once, maybe. Twice, most probably guilty. Thrice...yeah fuck off, Jon. 

Agreed. 

WeeAl's provided a decent summary of Jones's potential misdemeanors on the previous page. There are too many stories. Either he has knowingly dabbled to give himself a performance edge, terrible at ensuring his intake is above board, or constantly messes up his cycling procedure. If pressed, I would go with the former. But only Jones knows the truth. 

McGregor, Cain, Khabib, Mighty Mouse and various others have all competed at the highest level in the sport, trained accordingly and been subjected to the same testing procedures as Jones. Yet, none of them have ever been flagged for anything. 

[David]

22 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

Nah however we dress it up, three failures are three failures.

Not in this case it isn't. Dana White, Jeff Novitzky and Hunter Campbell have all said that Jones hasn't ingested any illegal substances, and that instances such as this have been seen before in athlete testing where a picogram from a previous era can be found in new tests.

In fact, since agreeing to fight Gustafsson Jones has taken and passed four drug tests. I know that may not fit with your rather simplistic view, but that's just the facts.

26 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

If this was McGregor in the same situation I think your posts on the matter would have a slightly different tone somehow. 

Absolute tosh and nothing but conjecture. I refute all such claims 😁

27 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

And why would DC being “hooking brothers up”? It’s Jones who caused this mess. It’s not up to Cormier to right that wrong. It should all be coming out of poor innocent Jon’s fight purse. Not DC’s Mr Kipling fund. 

I just figured DC, being the wholesome man of the people that he is may have wanted to help out? He could also have turned some of those boos into cheers by doing so, couldn't he? Two birds with one stone and all that.

Still, there's a reason why he gets booed to fuck while the true people's champion gets cheered. This is just an example of that. Long live the fighters fighter, the mans man, the people's champ. When Jones returns to his rightful place atop the sport it'll be movie material for sure. A young man reaching the dizzy heights before free falling due to him being human, being led astray by ungodly forces of corruption, before he accepts his erroneous ways and makes a comeback to reclaim all that is rightfully his.

I'm telling you man, there's fucking goosbumps on my arm as I write this. What a story.

[wandshogun09]

[Marshmallo]

38 minutes ago, David said:

In fact, since agreeing to fight Gustafsson Jones has taken and passed four drug tests. I know that may not fit with your rather simplistic view, but that's just the facts.

This particular steroid is apparently very useful in weight cutting. Can't imagine why it didn't show up in any of his previous tests.

[David]

1 hour ago, Marshmallo said:

This particular steroid is apparently very useful in weight cutting. Can't imagine why it didn't show up in any of his previous tests.

Look, if USADA, who are usually more than happy to fuck with fighters who fail tests are happy to let him fight then it's good enough for me. We're talking about the most miniscule of trace elements you can get.