Umaga - great gimmick, but a bit of a rapist.

[UK Kat Von D]

While protecting their mates surely will play a part in plenty of cases, I’m sure a lot of wrestling journalists will just be scared to publish such serious accusations. The backlash they could recieve would be massive if they turned out to be wrong or had reasonable doubt cast upon the allegations. Plus if they start getting choosey over which wrestler they exposed they would be open to criticism of favouritism. It is a lot simpler for them to avoid the entire topic unfortunately.

Probably best exposed by an outsider who “has nothing to lose” so to speak. An entire website could be dedicated to the subject, with loads of different articles about individuals. Starting off with stuff that is openly admitted or acknowledged, then once credibility has been built up moving onto individual’s testimonies etc

[W35ty]

6 hours ago, SpursRiot2012 said:

As far as this accusation goes, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. What does she have to gain by making up a story about a guy who is dead? Nothing except getting the truth out there, so I lean towards believing her.

There have been various stories over the last couple of years of accusers being fantasists.

Also you just have to look at this years CBB to see that someone can think something happened to them but in reality was different.

[bAzTNM#1]

14 hours ago, JakeRobertsParoleOfficer said:

In one of the Nash interviews WITH Sean Oliver there's a story about Del Ray spiking some poor girls drink, then one side of head getting shaved, and her period spread up the wall of the hallway God Knows what they did to her whilst she was out of it. All said like it was nothing, though like the model citizens they are he and Calloway left as it was thought due to their size they would be remembered and dragged into the issue.

Yeah, that's up on Youtube. Tatanka gets suspended for it for some reason too and the "Gigolo" Jimmy Del Ray got away with it. Sounds like the dodgiest thing I've ever heard in the WWE with a fan.

ADDED: It was Undertaker and Nash who were "H-Bombing" her all night, which is also terrible. It was a Goth girl, he says. So either Tatanka or Del Ray got their hands on her after it.

[Accident Prone]

5 hours ago, W35ty said:

There have been various stories over the last couple of years of accusers being fantasists.

Also you just have to look at this years CBB to see that someone can think something happened to them but in reality was different.

The fuck? You don't become a rock star or a massive celebrity when you openly accuse someone even remotely famous of something horrible. 

Look at the immediate backlash that female accusers get when they've claimed physical/mental abuse by a wrestler, sports star or actor. They get lambasted by the fanbase, often direct via social media, and called all sorts of awful, vile insults before any investigation has taken place. You don't suddenly become loved by everyone. No one fantasies about that, and if they do, they clearly need help. It's why Enzo Amore is a despicable prick for using his accuser as material in his 'songs'; at worst, he is mocking someone who he genuinely sexually assaulted. At best, he's mocking someone who needs psychiatric help. Fuck him and fuck his defenders.

If someone uses the "Oh she's just an attention seeker" excuse for any allegation, I dismiss them as an utter cunt. People moan about how social media is the judge, jury and executioner, but the truth is the axe swings both ways.

 

[Carbomb]

9 hours ago, W35ty said:

There have been various stories over the last couple of years of accusers being fantasists.

Also you just have to look at this years CBB to see that someone can think something happened to them but in reality was different.

Yeah, but there've been even more stories, several times over, of genuine accusers with legitimate accusations coming forward. The anger at Roxanne Pallett for her behaviour on CBB was largely because it would lead to statements like the one you've just made there - she effectively could have undermined the entire cause, which is why it's even more important not to let the few bad apples ruin the whole barrel. It's essential to remember that, statistically, false accusers are an almost negligible percentage of all people who come forward.

[David]

Every accusation should be taken seriously, no matter who makes it, and by the same token all parties should be considered innocent until the information comes to light that proves something one way or the other.

It's a tough situation, and in many respects it's a real tightrope morally, because you don't want to doubt the female making the claim, as the truth is there really is no upside to making a false claim. Making the claim at all causes all manner of issues for the person, which makes me believe that 99% of the time they're doing it for the right reasons.

At the same time, sometimes the accused is lost in the shuffle of discussions such as this, and it's important to remember that an accusation doesn't always mean guilt. The accused can have their own families who are affected by the accusations, so it's no picnic for them either.

Such a situation is harrowing enough as it is without the usual rubbish from those on the sidelines who talk about "fantasists," "gold-diggers," and any number of descriptions for females who supposedly "put it about."

What is seemingly lacking, especially in the wrestling world, is the desire to address the situations and deal with those who carry out such acts. Many times what we hear as "rumours" you can bet the company and those within it know as "fact."

[ColinBollocks]

Aye. I don't usually like airing really personal stuff like this, but fuck it. A friend/ex was raped by a singer in some shite indie band. She's only recently started getting help to deal with it, mainly because she was certain everyone would accuse her of being a "fantasist". Sadly, she is probably correct because I've encountered a lot of that logic over the years. I can't begin to imagine how horrible that must feel like, but I know it very nearly ruined her life.

The guy that did what he did happily marches on, while she's had to piece herself back together.

[BomberPat]

8 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

The guy that did what he did happily marches on, while she's had to piece herself back together.

To me this is the most important argument against the idea that women making accusations are after fame or attention. Women's lives are ruined, they're subject to horrendous abuse, insults and harassment just for speaking out, while more often than not the man they're accusing (particularly if they're famous, or there's some kind of power imbalance), continues their life and career unabated. 

Michael Elgin was suing his accuser for damaging his career, and loss of earnings, while wrestling in front of thousands of people at the Tokyo Dome, and multiple US indies. 

[unfitfinlay]

I totally agree about Enzo @Accident Prone. I was actually a bit sympathetic to him after hearing him on Austin’s podcast BUT the way he’s essentially trying to market himself as NOT A RAPIST, even selling merch with “consensual” on it, is creepy as fuck. It actually made me question his story, or lack of one. Unless I missed it, he never really spoke about her on the Podcast. He denied rape but never said he didn’t shag her, or that she was off her face on meth.

As an aside, the main reason that an “Outsider” can’t blow the lid on these stories is because they’d get sued to fuck. “Shelley Martinez said.....” isn’t a valid defense for defamation. You’d need a shit load of proper evidence to stand a chance and a ton of money to even get in front of a Judge. I just can’t see it happening.

[BomberPat]

3 minutes ago, unfitfinlay said:

As an aside, the main reason that an “Outsider” can’t blow the lid on these stories is because they’d get sued to fuck. “Shelley Martinez said.....” isn’t a valid defense for defamation. You’d need a shit load of proper evidence to stand a chance and a ton of money to even get in front of a Judge. I just can’t see it happening.

We're not necessarily talking about getting in front of a judge, though, we're talking about reportage. A journalist covering various accusations of sexual assault/abuse in Hollywood isn't necessarily doing so with the goal of getting the accused into a court of law, they're reporting on it because it's newsworthy.

[Keith Houchen]

1 minute ago, unfitfinlay said:

As an aside, the main reason that an “Outsider” can’t blow the lid on these stories is because they’d get sued to fuck. “Shelley Martinez said.....” isn’t a valid defense for defamation. You’d need a shit load of proper evidence to stand a chance and a ton of money to even get in front of a Judge. I just can’t see it happening.

This is the thing, and given how insular the wrestling world is, you have to wonder if anyone coming forward (male of female) won't just have their attacker to deal with, they'll have the whole weight of the industry to deal with.  And of course, we live in a world where people think their heroes are never guilty and that if a conviction isn't given, it equates to a false allegation.

When someone says they've been attacked, rightly or wrongly, my instinct is to believe them.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Simon Gotch had the best line regarding Enzo. "At worst he's a rapist. At best he's a horrible person."

[unfitfinlay]

1 minute ago, BomberPat said:

We're not necessarily talking about getting in front of a judge, though, we're talking about reportage. A journalist covering various accusations of sexual assault/abuse in Hollywood isn't necessarily doing so with the goal of getting the accused into a court of law, they're reporting on it because it's newsworthy.

I’m not talking about prosecution. I’m talking about the accused suing anyone who publishes the stories.

It cost Colt Cabana $500k to defend himself when WWE sued him (not including the fees that Punk paid) and he won! Who is going to risk that kind of hit based on evidence that can be argued as being sketchy as best? Imagine publishing that plane story, being sued by the estates of Randy Savage, the Ultimate Warrior, etc, and your only defense is something MARTY JANNETTY wrote on the internet years ago? You’d be as well just handing all your belongings over now.

 

[5pints]

What happened with Randy Orton? Not quite the same thing but getting your cock out, rubbing it and getting someone to shake your hand is still sexual assault?...or does he get away with it ala Wellness Policy style?

[JakeRobertsParoleOfficer]

7 hours ago, bAzTNM#1 said:

Yeah, that's up on Youtube. Tatanka gets suspended for it for some reason too and the "Gigolo" Jimmy Del Ray got away with it. Sounds like the dodgiest thing I've ever heard in the WWE with a fan.

ADDED: It was Undertaker and Nash who were "H-Bombing" her all night, which is also terrible. It was a Goth girl, he says. So either Tatanka or Del Ray got their hands on her after it.

Hi Banz 

NASH says the 'boys' were giving her h bombs" never says it was himself.

Didn't Raven get pulled but let off for apparently having sex with a 14 Yr old girl who apparently travelled with the boys. There's a line in their like x and his wife were having sex with her not me and then explains how lucky he was she corroborated his story? 

Slightly off subject but I never understood how Warrior released that hour long video whereby he says hogan pimped his wife out, implied incestuous stuff with his daughter, was a raging drug addict, got loads of wrestlers hooked on drugs, was a liar, cheat, and generally in the top 5 worst people to walk the earth and a year later warrior and hogan are hugging and when warrior pops it Hogan's crying his eyes out. 

 

Mad mad business where I literally think nothing is off limits. Hell vince even said in his own dvd release he wanted to do a steph invest angle??????