Paid Members Chris B Posted November 5, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) Technical question, which turned up yesterday at a screening. My video file, when projected or switched to a screen via HDMI degrades really noticeably from either my phone or laptop. I'd expect some degradation because of the larger screen, but not to the level we're seeing - it's also not low-res or anything. But I could literally see it on my laptop screen and the TV at the same time and they looked totally different. The stuff on screen looked more blurry and out of focus. I've seen my stuff on TVs/Screens before and never had an issue like this before. One thing I also noticed was that when I had 'Video Enhancer' turned on on my phone, it did exactly the same thing - brightened up the colours but degraded the quality. So I'm wondering if it's a default setting on some TVs/screens and if I'm falling foul of that (a bit like the 'Soap Opera Effect' with motion smoothing). Any ideas why this has happened and what I can do to avoid it in future? @chokeout? Bueller? Anyone? Bueller? Edited November 5, 2018 by Chris B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted November 5, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Chris B said: Technical question, which turned up yesterday at a screening. My video file, when projected or switched to a screen via HDMI degrades really noticeably from either my phone or laptop. I'd expect some degradation because of the larger screen, but not to the level we're seeing - it's also not low-res or anything. But I could literally see it on my laptop screen and the TV at the same time and they looked totally different. The stuff on screen looked more blurry and out of focus. I've seen my stuff on TVs/Screens before and never had an issue like this before. One thing I also noticed was that when I had 'Video Enhancer' turned on on my phone, it did exactly the same thing - brightened up the colours but degraded the quality. So I'm wondering if it's a default setting on some TVs/screens and if I'm falling foul of that (a bit like the 'Soap Opera Effect' with motion smoothing). Any ideas why this has happened and what I can do to avoid it in future? @chokeout? Bueller? Anyone? Bueller? Could be a number of things: Crappy HDMI cable / The computer or TV is controlling the output/input wrongly. Easy to dismiss but it can have an effect on the quality of the footage being shown. quickest one to rule out. If possible play it on the screen via USB to see if it makes a difference The tv / screen may have a picture mode that is trying to boost the brightness and contrast of the footage, which would also add a lot of previous unseen noise, frame blending and other shenanigans into the shots Changes during editing. If you can screenshot your export settings I can have a look to make sure it's nothing that's been done when you've saved your final video. Codec and mbps can really change how it looks on a larger screen Heavy colour grading can also look ok on screen but really add to noise when your raw footage was shot with less than 4:2:2 colour as it's got a far more limited palette to make those changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted November 6, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 6, 2018 Thanks, @chokeout - I've got a lot to learn about that side of things. I've looked at the mbps, but I've used 1080HD elsewhere and it's been fine - but maybe it's not high enough for larger displays, so that sounds a possible culprit. I have also been colour-grading and cutting out the grain (as we went with a higher ISO and lower shutter speed than we should have), so that may be part of it, although I don't think I overdid it. It was also an issue on shots where I hadn't done that. So unless you're noticing anything obvious from what I've got down here, I'm going to put it down to a combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted November 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited)    @Chris B Can't see anything from the settings that would cause the issues you mentioned, although i can see noise in the screenshot. Just a quick one that might work. When you are playing it through your tv have you changed the source to a PC (when you select the input on a tv, eg 'HDMI1' there is usually a tools or settings button and you can tell your tv what that HDMI is connected to; PC, Blu Ray player, Satellite, etc). , something like this. If that doesn't work, then i think you're probably right that it's a combination of a few settings, lower shutter speed and the frames being slightly off in the render could cause slight blur and ghosting.  Edit: If you have any of the footage online or a little clip i'll be happy to run it through one of the monitors and one of the projectors in work to have a quick look Edited November 6, 2018 by chokeout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted November 6, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 6, 2018 @chokeout I've actually just put it online (so it's more about avoiding it with future projects). The grain/noise was basically a compromise because of timing with the 48 hours - we were struggling with the light, but then had to go with it because it was either that or start REALLY racing against the battery running out on the main camera. So we went with 'done is better than perfect'. I tidied up the noise as much as I could, but there are worse things than grain. So while it wasn't going to look great on the bigger screen, I'd expected that - it looked much worse, even in the shots that looked a lot sharper. For anyone interested, with this 48 hour challenge, as mentioned earlier, I drew 'Western' and had to incorporate a spy, a London souvenir and the line 'It's like you always said'. Some of the London contingent might recognise the cowboy, btw.     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted November 6, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 6, 2018 Sorry for the double-post, but I think I've found part of the problem. @chokeout - Just solved the problem on the TV at work by switching the screen mode to 'movie' rather than 'standard'/'enhanced' etc - the biggest difference was the presence of backlight. Because it's a pretty visually dark film (intentionally), it seems to struggle with the blacks/reds/greens and gets blocky between them. Switching that off made it look MUCH sharper. So my guess is the combination of colours plus a setting - with brighter films, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted November 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) Fantastic @Chris B. Sounds like its just the noise in the shadows, which you'll always have, being amplified by the tv. Just out of curiosity what was you ISO / shutter speed when you were shooting the scenes around the table? Edited November 6, 2018 by chokeout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted November 6, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, chokeout said: Just out of curiosity what was you ISO / shutter speed when you were shooting the scenes around the table? Wrong, was what it was, basically. I didn't note them down, but both I and the other camera operator went with brightening the ISO rather than lowering it and raising the shutter-speed. So unsure as to the ISO, but it was pretty damn high. We probably would have figured it out after a few more minutes, but it was a trade-off. What you see now is after playing around with noise reduction and various colour settings on Premiere, which generally worked better than I thought it would. I was really worried when I first went through the footage, but it came out better than I expected. Still far from perfect, but serviceable (except when projection/TV settings aren't optimal for a combination of dark and colourful). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted November 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Chris B said: Wrong, was what it was, basically. I didn't note them down, but both I and the other camera operator went with brightening the ISO rather than lowering it and raising the shutter-speed. So unsure as to the ISO, but it was pretty damn high. We probably would have figured it out after a few more minutes, but it was a trade-off. What you see now is after playing around with noise reduction and various colour settings on Premiere, which generally worked better than I thought it would. I was really worried when I first went through the footage, but it came out better than I expected. Still far from perfect, but serviceable (except when projection/TV settings aren't optimal for a combination of dark and colourful). Noise reduction now is amazing compared to just a few years ago, both in camera and what can be done in post. This was a (very very) quick dialogue scene with 3 locked off cameras for part of a dialogue showreel, 4 takes and the only lighting was from a couple of smaller LED lights that we could fit in the car and a reflector on the floor. The only downside was that there isn't enough light on the car interior which is a beautiful vintage car (pic of it below), with the front seats taken out for room. Start to finish, including editing, it was probably all done in 6 hours. Would love to redo it with better lighting and some more movement from the car. Â Â Edited November 6, 2018 by chokeout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted November 6, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 6, 2018 @chokeout That's gorgeously shot and lit. How much post went into that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted November 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted November 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, Chris B said: @chokeout That's gorgeously shot and lit. How much post went into that? The edit didn't take too long. Sync'd all the cameras and did a multicamera edit. It's the best 2 takes merged into one. Most of the post was done with Magic Bullet looks on an adjustment layer. The only bit that took a bit of tinkering was Graham, the older actor, had asked for the lights from passing cars. I had originally just attached  one of the small LED lights to a light stand and rotated it but it so too dim to stand out so I made them in After Effects and just dropped them in where they would fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted November 23, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 23, 2018 Keeping an eye on Black Friday for DLSRs. Not looking for high-level, but considering stepping up from my phone. Any obvious reasons this wouldn't be a good buy? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-DSC-HX350-Digital-Compact-Optical-x/dp/B07BHXD1JJ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542972976&sr=8-1&keywords=black+friday+digital+camera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 In the spirit of this thread, I've come up with an idea for a short. Â Even got a plate for a tripod so I'm about good to go. Â Its dialogue free and I was going to do the music myself. What would be the best way to plan the shots? Storyboarding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted November 23, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 23, 2018 I don't tend to storyboard, as I have no faith in my own drawing ability. So what I tend to do is figure out what I'll need in terms of overall coverage and list out the shots. I'll also tend to combine a bunch while I film, if the camera's moving at all. So to give a quick example, I've copied and pasted my shotlist for this short horror film I made last month. Biggest tip: always shoot your wide shots first. 1 - Kitchen, medium 2 – Kitchen, close on Lucy 3 – Kitchen, close on wine 4 – Sofa, wide 5 – Sofa medium Lucy 6 – Sofa medium Seb 7 – Sofa close Lucy 8 – Sofa close Seb 9 - close-up camera Seb 10 - close-up Flash Seb 11 - close-up flash Lucy 12 – closeup light flicker (above) 13 - Wide room side 14 - Medium door 15 – POV stairs 16 – Behind Lucy and Seb stairs 17 - above stairs 18 – Stairs looking up 19 - Towards stairs 20 – from stairs to door 21 – closeup Seb at box 22 – Seb/Chris wide 23 – Chris medium Lucy pov 24 – Lucy close 25 – Lucy pov of Chris 26 – Sfx shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) Thanks a lot, Chris, that's really useful info and is the approach I think I'll use.  I'm not going to be making anything good but it's the actual process of having an idea and actually doing it is what I want to do as I never follow things up due to a lack of confidence. Loved the film as well, really inventive and imaginative! Edited November 23, 2018 by Keith Houchen Thanks, not that's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.