David Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Weezenal said: Watch your back. Physically impossible, but I welcome the advice nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewster McCloud Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Perhaps in a euthanasia scenario. If my enfeebled wife's dying wish was to be launched from a catapult or something, I reckon I'd get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted October 4, 2018 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2018 100% in that scenario. It's an appalling moral failure that it isn't legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Yeah, I still don't understand why it hasn't been legalized. I know there's questions about people coercing elder relatives etc, but surely if a Doctor and a patient signs off then what's the issue? People turn off life support machines, which is essentially the same thing. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted October 4, 2018 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2018 Yeah, I know there's complications around it to work out and that's fair enough. But it seems like there's been no progress at all. At least stay work legalizing the most clear cut scenarios and work from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 4, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 4, 2018 There's a part of me that says "Yes" for people like al-Assad, Trump, whoever's in charge of Daesh or Al Qaeda, Bannon, Pence, Kadyrov, Duterte, the more atrocious elements of the Saudi royal family (particularly that piece-of-shit defence minister prince who organised a gang-rape on one of his yachts), Salvi, etc. But ultimately, no. I'm opposed to the death penalty in all things for a good reason: I have no right to take anyone's life against their will, and I don't believe killing someone, even as punishment, is a morally superior way of showing others that killing is wrong. Also, the stats demonstrate pretty strongly that it's not a deterrent. I'm more in favour of restorative justice, and I appreciate there are some people who'll never have to face it, but the fact is evil people have got away with it for millennia - that's no reason to drop to their level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricc1PW Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 absolutely, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewster McCloud Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Surely euthanasia and self defence are the only justifications for killing someone? Self defence meaning preventing mortal danger to yourself, not stabbing people in the neck when they're trying to nick your telly. I do wonder, though, if I rigged my house with booby traps a la Home Alone, and left it like that while I went away, and then some miscreant ended up dead as a result of breaking into my sadistic lair, could I get done for murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 4, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Brewster McCloud said: I do wonder, though, if I rigged my house with booby traps a la Home Alone, and left it like that while I went away, and then some miscreant ended up dead as a result of breaking into my sadistic lair, could I get done for murder? No, it would be reckless manslaughter. Even if the traps could be demonstrated beyond doubt that they were intended to be lethal, the fact is you didn't set them up to kill someone specifically, or to kill at all if no-one came on to your property. There's no proof of mens rea; there's only proof that at best you simply didn't care that someone would be killed. The least you would be charged with would be criminal negligence, but the deliberate setting-up of such traps would be more likely to get a reckless manslaughter charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted October 4, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 4, 2018 For me, the only time taking a life can be argued as the best port-of-call for self defense would be if you couldn't run away from the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, Carbomb said: No, it would be reckless manslaughter. Even if the traps could be demonstrated beyond doubt that they were intended to be lethal, the fact is you didn't set them up to kill someone specifically, or to kill at all if no-one came on to your property. There's no proof of mens rea; there's only proof that at best you simply didn't care that someone would be killed. The least you would be charged with would be criminal negligence, but the deliberate setting-up of such traps would be more likely to get a reckless manslaughter charge. Plus Ca Change, ya filthy animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 34 minutes ago, Carbomb said: There's a part of me that says "Yes" for people like al-Assad, Trump, whoever's in charge of Daesh or Al Qaeda, Bannon, Pence, Kadyrov, Duterte, the more atrocious elements of the Saudi royal family (particularly that piece-of-shit defence minister prince who organised a gang-rape on one of his yachts), Salvi, etc. I'm as critical of Trump as the next guy, but you'd group him and the likes of Pence in with people like al-Assad, who has reportedly committed war crimes that have been called "the worst since Nazi Germany"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 4, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, David said: I'm as critical of Trump as the next guy, but you'd group him and the likes of Pence in with people like al-Assad, who has reportedly committed war crimes that have been called "the worst since Nazi Germany"? There isn't just one echelon of shit, though. Maybe he's not as bad as al-Assad, but the deaths and suffering that he and the Republican lunatic fringe indirectly have caused and will cause is widespread, not just through the US, but the world, as a result of their policies and the vicious political culture they are cheerleading and enabling. Bannon isn't as bad as al-Assad either, but he's still a vicious piece of shit whose behaviour and words contribute to the deaths of non-white people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Carbomb said: There isn't just one echelon of shit, though. Maybe he's not as bad as al-Assad, but the deaths and suffering that he and the Republican lunatic fringe indirectly have caused and will cause is widespread, not just through the US, but the world, as a result of their policies and the vicious political culture they are cheerleading and enabling. Bannon isn't as bad as al-Assad either, but he's still a vicious piece of shit whose behaviour and words contribute to the deaths of non-white people. All President's of the US have caused deaths of non-white people though, even everyone's favourite Prez Obama was partial to droning the fuck out of entire families in the Middle East. I wouldn't wish death upon him though. There are levels to this game, my dear friend. al-Assad, as a vigorous war crimes master, would be someone I'd wish death upon. Trump and Pence? Not so much. I tend to just wish they'd bugger off back to whatever they did before they got into the politics game. To be perfectly honest, I rank Tony Blair as far worse than Trump. Another prick who is surely guilty of war crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 4, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, David said: All President's of the US have caused deaths of non-white people though, even everyone's favourite Prez Obama was partial to droning the fuck out of entire families in the Middle East. I wouldn't wish death upon him though. There are levels to this game, my dear friend. al-Assad, as a vigorous war crimes master, would be someone I'd wish death upon. Trump and Pence? Not so much. I tend to just wish they'd bugger off back to whatever they did before they got into the politics game. To be perfectly honest, I rank Tony Blair as far worse than Trump. Another prick who is surely guilty of war crimes. That is true, both about American presidents (I didn't have any time for Obama politically), and about Blair - but bear in mind, like I said, there's only a part of me that would say "yes", because the overwhelming greater part of me (ooer) says "no". It's actually because of arguments like yours (i.e. "where do you draw the line?") that helps me make that decision, in addition to the principle that killing someone against their will is wrong. There are people on this planet who make me feel murderous, I can't deny that. But this is where our reasoning and discipline needs to come in. When it comes to this question, I need to remind myself that, however many deaths that lot cause, directly or indirectly, I can't stoop to that level (in theory, obviously - not like I have the capability). If anything, my ideal would be to see them all imprisoned in a facility on an asteroid, kept apart from civilisation on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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