SuperBacon Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: Yeah I mentioned parent companies and that was the grey area, it’s the same as Tesco selling meat and also selling vegan foods. Pretty impossible to live without there being some kind of connection, but that is why eventually I want to only use my own grown stuff. That’s the best way I can cut it out all together Buying food from supermarkets I can understand (convenience, price etc), and being vegan is a conscious choice you’ve made, as  is smoking. But the difference is you need food to survive. I smoke myself and know how hard it can to be quit so I’m not being a dick, I just don’t see the two things in the same place at all. If you’re vegan for ethical reasons, then buying a product from a company that directly profits from that sale is counter-intuitive? Self sufficiency sounds like a good idea, and from what I’ve read, if you’re going to smoke then Imperial Tobacco doesn’t test on animals. One more thing I learnt is that some cigarettes contain Castoreum, which is an additive made from secretions of Beavers anus glands. Yum. Gives new meaning to the phrase “Can I bum a smoke?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: If you’re vegan for ethical reasons, then buying a product from a company that directly profits from that sale is counter-intuitive?  If you start going into boycotting brands who’s parent companies make money from dodgy stuff you’d leave a very small window of things to have. Could I buy vegetables off a farmer who also has livestock? It’s like saying Vegans can’t own an iPhone etc. I won’t buy anything from places like Nestle, but you gotta draw the line somewhere. Plenty of vegans smoke and I use the best option out there. Pretty sure all brands don’t actually use beaver arse liquid, it’s made artificially but that’s where the chemical was originally found. Like saying redbull has bull spunk in it Edited January 9, 2020 by UK Kat Von D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, UK Kat Von D said: Putting an animal that is suffering to sleep is totally different from forcing one into cruel living conditions before slitting its throat to eat. People don’t put their pets to sleep for enjoyment the same way livestock is killed.  I would say that farm animal standards in the UK are very good, the animals aren't pumped full of steroids and hormones like they are in many countries. It's not like calves are kept in veal crates and battery farming chickens is way down to what it was. I also don't think anyone who works in an abattoir gets a kick out of slaughtering animals either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 I didn’t say all brands used it, just that I’d discovered what it was. Plenty of vegans smoke of course, but my reasoning is that if you are 100% vegan for ethical reasons, then you should be doing all you can to uphold that, and that includes where possible cutting out things that are unnecessary. Eating is vital to surviving, smoking isn’t. Plus you don’t use the best option out there as i pointed out, the brand you use has a parent company that tests animals. Small amount of research shows that Imperial Tobacco, for one, don’t. But like you say, you have to draw the line somewhere. And that’s fags for you. Fair enough  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said: I would say that farm animal standards in the UK are very good, the animals aren't pumped full of steroids and hormones like they are in many countries. It's not like calves are kept in veal crates and battery farming chickens is way down to what it was. I also don't think anyone who works in an abattoir gets a kick out of slaughtering animals either. I’ve been to places which are absolute hell on earth. Atrocious conditions that no living creature should endure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: I’ve been to places which are absolute hell on earth. Atrocious conditions that no living creature should endure I've been to Wolverhampton as well, luckily I only had to spend a few hours there. Edited January 9, 2020 by Rey_Piste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said: I've been to Wolverhampton as well, luckily I was only had to spend a few hours there. Wolverhampton has gas chambers for pigs , I’ve been there a few times and heard them screaming as their lungs burn. Fucking awful place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:  But like you say, you have to draw the line somewhere. And that’s fags for you. Fair enough Nah. Principles are principles and if you aren’t 100% with them, it’s not a principle it’s a hobby. People always make excuses for things they like, just like people will reach like Stretch Armstrong to try and do a Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 9, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2020 Had the veggie meatballs from subway for lunch. Not great, tbh. Texture was ok and the sauce was nice but the flavour was a bit odd. Still, nearly 200 calories less than meaty-meatballs so I'd go for them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Nah. Principles are principles and if you aren’t 100% with them, it’s not a principle it’s a hobby. People always make excuses for things they like, just like people will reach like Stretch Armstrong to try and do a Gotcha. I did like eating meat, I just couldn’t justify it. I can justify cigarettes. Although like I said, that is where my grey area is. It’s just not as big of a grey area as Loki who seems to think you can eat animals a few days a week and still care about animals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Nah. Principles are principles and if you aren’t 100% with them, it’s not a principle it’s a hobby. People always make excuses for things they like, just like people will reach like Stretch Armstrong to try and do a Gotcha. I wasn’t trying to “get” Kat, I’m interested in how far he will go as a vegan for his principles. Out of everyone on here, he is probably the most strict vegan, so I’m keen to see how far that extends into his everyday lifestyle. Whether he smokes or not is none of my business, but by looking into a few things, I’ve seen lots of people quit smoking (and drinking) due to it not being vegan. That’s all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: I did like eating meat, I just couldn’t justify it. I can justify cigarettes. Although like I said, that is where my grey area is. It’s just not as big of a grey area as Loki who seems to think you can eat animals a few days a week and still care about animals To be frank, it’s only a grey area if you want it to be. It’s self justification and can lead to a lack of responsibility, something you rallied against previously in the thread. But where does the grey area end? That quote Loki used had you justifying a bit of beak because it wasn’t causing that much abuse to animals, so by that reasoning a bacon sarnie a week is ok. But as we’ve said throughout the thread, it’s a personal journey for personal reasons.  @SuperBacon Apologies, I wasn’t insinuating you were after a gotcha, just more making the point that people will make extraordinary leaps in both sides of a debate. It’s the old “Oh you’re anti capitalist yet you partake in a capitalist society. How strange” nonsense. Like yourself I had no idea about ethical tobacco so thanks to you and Kat for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: Wolverhampton has gas chambers for pigs , I’ve been there a few times and heard them screaming as their lungs burn. Fucking awful place I was talking more about the conditions of the animals on the farms, rather than the conditions the animals are slaughtered in. I just wonder what your stance is on someone like a friend of mine who I always call a "middle-class Good Life wanker".He runs a small campsite in Cornwall, he keeps goats, ducks and chickens as well as growing a lot of his own vegetables. He's not solely vegetarian, but the majority of his food is plant based. He will occasionally kill a chicken or duck to eat, as well as killing rabbits in season because they are pests that if left unchecked would decimate his vegetables. Because he is killing the animals himself they are killed quickly and he takes good care of his animals . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted January 9, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2020 @SuperBacon I've seen lots of Vegan Wine and Beer. Most of Brewdogs stuff is labeled SFV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) Same with beers, lagers etc. I know, and have had, lots of gluten free beers (lovely Czech one in Waitrose, Celia), but wasn’t aware that some have lactose and a few animal derived additives added to them. Thankfully, Neck Oil and Gamma Ray are vegan friendly! @Hannibal Scorch Yeah, but they’re about as punk rock as the “rebel whopper”! Edited January 9, 2020 by SuperBacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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