Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 Don't get why vegans don't eat dairy. I get why they don't eat eggs for obv reasons but milk is just a product of the cow. Surely you can farm without eating the cow? Or do they see some utopia where cows just wander the streets like in India? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: Don't get why vegans don't eat dairy. I get why they don't eat eggs for obv reasons but milk is just a product of the cow. Surely you can farm without eating the cow? Or do they see some utopia where cows just wander the streets like in India? The argument is that dairy farming is cruel, because it requires cows to be frequently impregnated so that they'll almost continuously produce milk, and the calves are taken away from them when they're born to be slaughtered. Edited January 9, 2019 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: Don't get why vegans don't eat dairy. I get why they don't eat eggs for obv reasons but milk is just a product of the cow. Surely you can farm without eating the cow? Or do they see some utopia where cows just wander the streets like in India? Because in order to mass produce milk, the treatment of cows is abhorrent. Milk-producing cows are artificially inseminated in pretty brutal fashion, and the calf removed from her within a day or two, causing untold distress. She'll be pumped full of hormones to over-produce milk, exposing her to illness and shortening her natural lifespan even if we assume she's not eventually being slaughtered for meat when she's outgrown her usefulness. Average of a farmed dairy cow is around 5 years, out of a potential natural life of 25. In a lot of ways, dairy farming is far, far grimmer than meat farming, and I say that having come from a dairy farming background. Edited January 9, 2019 by BomberPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 I don't know how I didn't know that. Serious, if stupid, question: What would happen to all the cows if Maxwell's Vegan-land prediction came true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, BomberPat said: Because in order to mass produce milk, the treatment of cows is abhorrent, and also contributes to production of veal as unwanted male calves are used for meat. In a lot of ways, dairy farming is far, far grimmer than meat farming, and I say that having come from a dairy farming background. Not to mention you're living in a place strongly associated with dairy produce! I take it the treatment of Jersey cows is no better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Sergio Mendacious Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, tiger_rick said: I don't know how I didn't know that. Serious, if stupid, question: What would happen to all the cows if Maxwell's Vegan-land prediction came true? Zero Hour contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, tiger_rick said: I don't know how I didn't know that. Serious, if stupid, question: What would happen to all the cows if Maxwell's Vegan-land prediction came true? Zoos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, tiger_rick said: I don't know how I didn't know that. Serious, if stupid, question: What would happen to all the cows if Maxwell's Vegan-land prediction came true? I had this conversation back when I was working at a zoo, and we had this kind of discussion a lot. I hadn't encountered it before, but apparently "if we weren't farming them, they'd go extinct, and you wouldn't want a species going extinct now would you?" is a quite common pseudo-justification for eating meat. The thing is, the Vegan Utopia isn't happening overnight. Declining demand for meat will see industrial farming replaced by smaller scale production, so the number of cows bred for meat and dairy will decrease. Of all farmed animals, cows are the trickiest one as they don't really have anything approaching a wild population anywhere, and haven't for centuries (unlike pigs, goats, etc.), but if we get to the point where all meat farms are shut down and there's still a population of cows, then we could look at repurposing previously farmed land, potentially rewilding some areas, and just letting cows live out their natural lives. Perhaps they'll find an ecological niche, perhaps they won't. But if it comes to between cows dying out and the countless species threatened with extinction by the scale of industrial farming and its knock-on effects, I'd probably sack cows off. 1 minute ago, Carbomb said: Not to mention you're living in a place strongly associated with dairy produce! I take it the treatment of Jersey cows is no better? I'm actually not overly familiar with how Jersey cows are treated! In general, at least, they spend the majority of their lives outside in the fields rather than crammed into dark cramped sheds, so they have it better than most battery cows, though still hardly an easy ride for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 So the Vegans want to kill off all the cows? That's heavy, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 There are some more humanely produced milk available IIRC. Waitrose guarantees that dairy cattle that produce its milk spend a minimum of 100 days a year in grazing pasture. Anything labelled as organic milk in the UK is over 200 days access to pasture, no routine antibiotics and less aggressive yields. Consumers can help drive up animal welfare conditions if you're willing to spend a few extra pennies, which I certainly am. Being a meat-eater doesn't mean you can't be concerned for animals welfare (with the understanding that slaughter is ultimately their fate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, tiger_rick said: I don't know how I didn't know that. Serious, if stupid, question: What would happen to all the cows if Maxwell's Vegan-land prediction came true? Have you not SEEN Planet of the Apes? If so, that. But with Cows instead of Apes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Sergio Mendacious Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 A bovine mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 9, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2019 Forgot to mention: day before yesterday, saw a place just off Tottenham Court Road that apparently has only just recently opened in the past few days. Might try it out. Menu had odd-sounding stuff in it like blackened tempeh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Out of curiosity, how's the vegan cooking going @UK Kat Von D? I've got a new cook book for Xmas which should hopefully expand my meals. I tend to have curries, salads, burritos, something with sweet potato, sometimes a burger, but I've ended up having the same/similar stuff after a while as I've not looked into more recipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted January 9, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 9, 2019 Tescos have started selling these brilliant King Oyster Mushrooms. They've become a staple of my veggie/vegan dishes recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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