VeganMania

[Kaz Hayashi]

12 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

It’s a proper film, only recently been taken off Netflix. Off the top of my head I don’t know any articles as in depth as that film

 

Nah very few tattoo inks contain any animal product. All my bottles even have the little Vegan logo. 

I think people should be vegan, but I’m not making anyone. I’m just explaining why I think people should be and hoping I strike a cord with them so they can make the choice themselves. I do totally reject the idea that anyone would continue to eat meat if they didn’t want to just to spite a pushy vegan off the Internet, because that’s a bit mad 

Good to hear about your ink. How about your stencil paper (typically lanolin based) and after care gear such as razors (usually glycerin strips). Not trying to be a cunt here, but I am prodding for consistency’s sake. 

As mentioned in another reply, please don’t under estimate what people will or won’t do, if they feel like they’re being spoken down to. Especially people on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. Even if you are not technically speaking down to someone, there’s a chance they think you will be, especially if you’re chucking around comments such as, “Fuck those people they can find a new job” in regards to people who work in the meat industry.

[Bellenda Carlisle]

6 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

 

BOL Sri Lankan Sambar Veg Pot or BOL Thai Coconut Curry.

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/vegan-44/bol-sri-lankan-sambar-veg-pot-345g

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/vegan-44/bol-thai-coconut-curry-345g-7832993-p-44

Fucking gorgeous these. Hot, spicy and plenty of flavour and crunch.

 

 

I like these, as you said they really don't wimp out on the flavour and spice which is unusual as ready meals are usually so bland. The sweet potato chilli is my fave. They're a bit expensive though. I thought they were a bit small too but I can't complain about that as they are actually really filling.

[David]

Just now, Chest Rockwell said:

I thought that had been completely debunked and there's no benefits except for people who actually have an intolerance.

It may be down to the individual, but that's one thing I did (mostly) cut from my diet that had a terrific effect on me. 

There are people who are celiac and can't touch the stuff, but it has a load of other health benefits from what I've heard, and it has worked wonders for me. I've heard that while cutting gluten from your diet doesn't affect you in the same way as someone who is celiac, it does remove many of the symptoms that non-celiacs can still suffer, such as bloating, digestive issues and suchlike. 

That's not to say that it would do the same for the next guy, of course, but my personal experience has been great.

[BomberPat]

To me, saying that you're "sick and losing muscle mass" from a vegan diet sounds like you're not eating well enough to be healthy and athletic with it - that's not indicative of other people on the same diet. You could be vegan and eat nothing but Oreos and Pot Noodles, just as you could be a meat eater and eat nothing but Chicken Nuggets, the nominal diet tells you nothing.

Being able to point to successful athletes with meat-based diets, or saying that vegans make up a minority of athletes, isn't all that helpful either, because it completely ignores the wider cultural context - the vast majority of people still eat meat, and you're going to see that reflected in the percentage of athletes too. You could only determine that one was inherently better than the other if both were at a level playing field with no associated cultural or societal baggage.

Plenty of vegan athletes out there over the years, though -  Nate Diaz, Carl Lewis, David Haye, Jermain Dafoe, Lewis Hamilton, Venus Williams, and others mentioned already. A small percentage, sure, but enough to chip away at the "sickly and undernourished" stereotype. 

 

You presented a vegan diet as being an option between being conscious of environmental concerns and animal rights or being healthy in yourself, and that's a complete false dichotomy. There's nothing inherently unhealthy about a plant-based diet.

[Bus Surfer]

I suffer from Rosacea and did gluten/dairy free solid for about 12 months a year or so back. I did feel pretty great at the beginning but I found I was losing way too much weight throughout, so had to introduce a little bit of gluten back in (just not the 6 slices of bread that I used to eat per day)

I've managed to maintain the dairy free side much easier though and still keep that up. 

My dermatologist is a big believer in Low Glycemic Index/Load type diets so I try to eat as close to that as I can, with a few treats snuck in.

I do find it benefits my skin as my body doesn't have to work so hard to combat inflammation the food might be creating. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Silky Kisser

[Carbomb]

48 minutes ago, David said:

People are campaigning against those things because they are wrong and done purely for profit. Can iPhones and clothes be made elsewhere? Of course they can. 

But, having those iPhones and clothes made elsewhere isn't going to actively impact on my health and wellbeing, is it? That's why this is different. I'm not arguing that killing animals is nice, it's not. Of course it isn't.

But life isn't nice. I don't like it when I see a predator tear apart a helpless animal on National Geographic, but that's how it goes. The circle of life and all that jazz.

But that's not what you're arguing, which is "it's good for GSP, so it can't be healthy not to". 

My point is that ordinary vegans, or average people looking to switch to veganism, aren't going to look at it from a pure nutritional standpoint, nor are they going to look at it from the perspective of an elite athlete.

A vegan diet will serve their nutritional purposes absolutely fine, because they don't need it to do the souped-up-human-being thing that GSP does, which also gives them more room to incorporate vegan ethics into their lifestyle.

To analogise: Lewis Hamilton drives an F1 racing vehicle, which guzzles petrol, belches carbon monoxide, and helps perpetuate the market for fossil fuels.

Your average person doesn't need an F1 vehicle to get from A to B. They just need a car. Your average car-user (the equivalent of the average omnivore) will use one of a selection of affordable, but environmentally-damaging cars. Others might go for a hybrid (vegetarians), which are less damaging, but still a bit damaging. Those with higher-than-average income, or maybe lower-than-average lifestyle costs, will plump for an environmentally-friendly Nissan Leaf, SmartCar, or even a Tesla (these are vegans). And some will even just stick with a bicycle, which is more work, but ultimately probably better for their health overall as well as brill for the environment (vegans who grow their own food).

As good for the environment as those electric cars are, none of them, nor the bicycle, will provide Lewis Hamilton with the power and speed he needs to win the F1 Drivers' Championship. But they will get vegan tattooists to their seitan-burger-serving MMA cafes in Highgate while they wear monocles and colourful shirts hated by the UKFF.

Quote

We don't have to do what GSP does, that's true, but as someone who tried making that switch (I bought into the whole healthy aspect of it) and who found after a year that it was actually giving me issues rather than working for me, I find that a hybrid system works best. 

High quality meats and fish, along with many of the things that I would eat in a vegetarian diet. I avoid the rubbish, such as fast food, milk chocolate, cheese and so forth.

At that point I was training a lot more, feeling healthier, looking better and had put back on the lost muscle mass. 

It's common sense really, isn't it? Put high quality products into your body. I get my meat from local producers, not supermarkets. Same with my fish, fruit and vegetables.

But you're smart enough to know that not every human being is the same, and therefore different things work for different people.

Max can thrive on Unleaded, but clearly you need Premium, dude! PREMIUUUUM!

Edited September 25, 2018 by Carbomb

[Bellenda Carlisle]

15 minutes ago, David said:

It may be down to the individual, but that's one thing I did (mostly) cut from my diet that had a terrific effect on me. 

There are people who are celiac and can't touch the stuff, but it has a load of other health benefits from what I've heard, and it has worked wonders for me. I've heard that while cutting gluten from your diet doesn't affect you in the same way as someone who is celiac, it does remove many of the symptoms that non-celiacs can still suffer, such as bloating, digestive issues and suchlike. 

That's not to say that it would do the same for the next guy, of course, but my personal experience has been great.

My personal experience is that I've been in the best shape of my life since I stopped eating meat. I'm not saying that would be the case for everyone but I can't complain about the impact it's had on me.

I certainly don't miss having chunks of red meat decomposing away in my guts either. I remember cooking chicken and making sure the raw chicken doesn't touch anything or it will contaminate it, washing my hands every 5 seconds and making sure the chicken is fully cooked or it will make me sick and it just all seems so gross to me now.

[Cod Eye]

I tried a vegetarian diet a few years ago when my physical disability was getting at it's worst, and was trying different things to attempt to minimalise the impact of it(alternative remedies, special diets etc). I stopped after about 3 months as it made me even more miserable than I was, without having any physical effects. I learned that(for me anyway) life was too short to deny myself any of the few pleasures I had left after I was wheelchair bound, so went back to eating meat.

I can understand people getting turned off meat due to the cruelty side of things though. We now only buy our (fresh)meat from a local farm shop that raises their own animals and does their own butchering and feel it's worth the bit extra that it costs... The farm is open to the public too so you can see how the animals are raised and treated, and to be fair they look like they are treated better than I am at home...

[Guy Bifkin]

I'm not a vegan but I don't mind dabbling with it, or even making a vegan recipe to go with a nice bit of meat. 

My favourite vegan guy is John Joseph and he has some excellent videos up on YouTube with some delicious dishes.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Are we all just ok with referring to Lewis Hamilton as an athlete, then?

[Carbomb]

7 minutes ago, Bellenda Carlisle said:

I certainly don't miss having chunks of red meat decomposing away in my guts either. I remember cooking chicken and making sure the raw chicken doesn't touch anything or it will contaminate it, washing my hands every 5 seconds and making sure the chicken is fully cooked or it will make me sick and it just all seems so gross to me now.

This one bit is a bit of a red herring, to be honest. I get the rest of your perspective, but the whole thing about meat decomposing in the gut is down to people cutting away the fat from it, which they shouldn't do; the fat contains vital amino acids and enzymes that enable the body to digest the meat fully.

[David]

3 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

To me, saying that you're "sick and losing muscle mass" from a vegan diet sounds like you're not eating well enough to be healthy and athletic with it - that's not indicative of other people on the same diet. You could be vegan and eat nothing but Oreos and Pot Noodles, just as you could be a meat eater and eat nothing but Chicken Nuggets, the nominal diet tells you nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't wasting away to nothing and in my bed being read my last rites or anything like that, but as someone who trains three or four times per week I did notice a difference in how I looked and my energy levels. My coach also noticed it. I also caught more colds and viruses that year than I had in the previous five years combined.

I'm generally a healthy eater, so it wasn't pot noodles and Oreos by any stretch, but even with the recommended supplements and suchlike I just couldn't get it working for me. I gave it a year.

Once I switched back to a diet that included a percentage of high-quality meat and fish, coupled with a lot of vegetables and fruit I saw a remarkable uptick in my own performance and wellbeing.

We can all only really speak from our own personal experiences, and as someone who tried a vegetarian diet and who is in relatively decent shape for someone my age, I found that it simply didn't work.

I also believe that many people who see these terrific benefits from going vegan or vegetarian are those who go from a diet that includes a lot of shit meat, like fast food and pre-packaged meats etc. 

Of course those people are going to see remarkable benefits, just by virtue of giving up the absolute shitfest that is a lot of a normal persons diet they'll feel much better.

I went from someone who's diet consisted of grilled fish, lean meats, chicken and tuna as far as animal products go. I don't consume cheese or milk.

Going from that to a vegetarian (which was vegan really as I didn't ever eat dairy anyway) diet didn't really benefit me, and actually affected me negatively.

11 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Being able to point to successful athletes with meat-based diets, or saying that vegans make up a minority of athletes, isn't all that helpful either, because it completely ignores the wider cultural context - the vast majority of people still eat meat, and you're going to see that reflected in the percentage of athletes too. You could only determine that one was inherently better than the other if both were at a level playing field with no associated cultural or societal baggage.

Unlike many people who'll say "such and such eats meat, so it's the best! Grab a MacD's and a sarnie with corned beef on it! Yaaay!" my point is more that having some high-quality meat in your diet is the way to go, in my opinion of course.

Meat makes up about 15% to 20% of my diet in total, which doesn't seem like much, but when I took that away it affected my training, and my health.

13 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

You presented a vegan diet as being an option between being conscious of environmental concerns and animal rights or being healthy in yourself, and that's a complete false dichotomy. There's nothing inherently unhealthy about a plant-based diet.

That wasn't my intention, my intention was to highlight that there is a middle ground if someone is coming at this from a health perspective. I understand that if you're coming at it from an ethical perspective then there's no wiggle room, and that's fine. To each their own.

My advice, as someone who's been on both sides of the fence, for anyone who's maybe overweight or unhealthy, and who wants to make a switch is to try and eliminate the sub-standard meat from their diet initially, drop their intake down to the 15%-20% mark and only consume high-quality meat.

Many times jumping from a meat-rich diet to a completely vegan diet isn't the answer.

[Carbomb]

1 minute ago, Chest Rockwell said:

Are we all just ok with referring to Lewis Hamilton as an athlete, then?

It was just for the purpose of analogy.

[Cod Eye]

2 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

Are we all just ok with referring to Lewis Hamilton as an athlete, then?

F1 drivers are as fit as they come, to be fair. They need to be to cope with the stresses the car puts them under, and the amount of weight they lose in sweat over the course of a race is stagering...

Edited September 25, 2018 by Cod Eye

[Keith Houchen]

14 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Max can thrive on Unleaded, but clearly you need Premium, dude! PREMIUUUUM!

DUUUUUUUUUUUDDDDEE!!!

Of course, if we're talking about being kinder to the environment, I'm doing the greenest thing a person can do and not have kids.