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3 minutes ago, TildeGuy~! said:

Speaking of Cobb he was on Talk Is Jericho last week and spoke about his WWE tryout.

They stuck him in the indie section instead of the athlete section(he’d been doing indies for a couple of months by then even though he was an Olympian)

No Way Jose got signed over him.

Seems like a really cool chilled guy.

He does, I had a whinge on twitter that I thought somebody fresher should've won PWG's BOLA last year. one of his fans who was searching his name took issue and went and tagged him like a complete cunt. I was surprised when I logged on and seen he'd said something along the lines of "let them have their opinion". Most wrestlers would probably just have blocked me

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This argument is a fuckin cure for insomnia isn't it? Fucking hell.

I imagine the Bret Hart one would be a bitter.

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1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

I can't really clarify what I didn't say. Nowhere did I say or imply that any large company having shady dealings with external sources absolves or diminishes WWE's practices. You said that I said, or implied, that.

That you mentioned the practices of other companies when discussing current criticism of WWE at all implies, whether you intended it or not, that that criticism is invalid.

 

1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

I also never said that anyone on this forum is criticising WWE to be cool - that is you creating your own narrative again. I was infact referring to the likes of David Starr on Twitter. Now, I'm sure, were I so inclined to do so [which I'm not especially] find people on this forum who have made a big fuss of cancelling their network subscriptions etc who still comment on/follow WWE - which I personally have no issue with other than the hypocrisy of it, which is hardly the worst thing in the world as I referenced in my previous post - we're wrestling fans, we are all moral hypocrites as long as the product we are into at the time entertains us. Hell, even you haven't completely written off watching WWE again.

I didn't supply any arbitrary deadline to anything in fairness, it was a random date that could have been any time and I'm fairly sure you know that. 

Obviously people have their own 'that's it' moment in regards to these things and that's different for everyone - clearly you were fine with them potentially covering up a murder, for instance, as unless you stopped watching in 1984 [or whenever the Snuka thing I assume you are referring to occurred] you have admitted you were a fan of them after that happened. 

Again - we justify what we justify. Cool.

You said "people" are doing it to be cool, implying, again whether you intended it or not, that more than just David Starr were criticising WWE just to be cool. It's not unreasonable to think you were also referring to people on here. Glad to clarify you just meant him.

BTW it doesn't make me a hypocrite to only watch WWE again if they've made serious, and I mean serious, amends - a bit like how I'll only stop considering the Catholic church to be a corrupt and destructive institution only when they sell off all the gold and expensive trappings of the Vatican and their cathedrals, and use it to help the poor en masse. Ain't gonna happen, at least not in my lifetime. But I'll take the accusation of hypocrisy that I didn't stop back in the early 2000s like I should have. The Snuka thing, and much of the other wrestling sleaze that's widely known, I only found out about when I came to the IWC in the early 2000s, and because so much of it was ambiguous, it was one of those things I thought I could just ignore, but yeah - should've stopped watching when I realised how much truth there was to it.

I'll admit I went a bit overboard with the "deadline" thing, but it was to show up the ridiculousness of lambasting people for taking their time to finally cancel their subscriptions or truly criticise WWE after years of fandom.

 

Honest question: what are you exactly saying people should be saying or doing as regards their wrestling viewing and fandom, if they are angry because of the Saudi deal and Ashley Massaro's alleged rape? Because this is why I'm responding to you: your post implies that any grown adult who has watched wrestling after having found out about WWE's shady past should shut up and not say anything. 

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9 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

That you mentioned the practices of other companies when discussing current criticism of WWE at all implies, whether you intended it or not, that that criticism is invalid.

 

You said "people" are doing it to be cool, implying, again whether you intended it or not, that more than just David Starr were criticising WWE just to be cool. It's not unreasonable to think you were also referring to people on here. Glad to clarify you just meant him.

BTW it doesn't make me a hypocrite to only watch WWE again if they've made serious, and I mean serious, amends - a bit like how I'll only stop considering the Catholic church to be a corrupt and destructive institution only when they sell off all the gold and expensive trappings of the Vatican and their cathedrals, and use it to help the poor en masse. Ain't gonna happen, at least not in my lifetime. But I'll take the accusation of hypocrisy that I didn't stop back in the early 2000s like I should have. The Snuka thing, and much of the other wrestling sleaze that's widely known, I only found out about when I came to the IWC in the early 2000s, and because so much of it was ambiguous, it was one of those things I thought I could just ignore, but yeah - should've stopped watching when I realised how much truth there was to it.

I'll admit I went a bit overboard with the "deadline" thing, but it was to show up the ridiculousness of lambasting people for taking their time to finally cancel their subscriptions or truly criticise WWE after years of fandom.

 

Honest question: what are you exactly saying people should be saying or doing as regards their wrestling viewing and fandom, if they are angry because of the Saudi deal and Ashley Massaro's alleged rape? Because this is why I'm responding to you: your post implies that any grown adult who has watched wrestling after having found out about WWE's shady past should shut up and not say anything. 

I wasn't 'lambasting' anybody, but again, you seem to read things that aren't there into practically every sentence I write so I'll just accept that as the norm going forward. More than David Starr ARE criticising WWE just to be 'cool' in my opinion. I'm sorry I didn't specifically highlight every single one of them or in exactly what forum they were doing so to ensure that there was no misinterpretation or assumptions made on your part. I was commenting that by continuing to consume what is being offered we all, to whatever level, have elements of hypocrisy. I also clearly stated that hypocrisy of this type is hardly the worst thing in the world.

Okay, so allow me answer your question/clarify with hopefully no 'implications' that could be misinterpreted - I am not saying that anyone should shut up and not say anything. I have not said that at any point. Anyone should feel free to voice their discontent and take whatever actions they see fit. My point was that people are willing to overlook certain things as long as what they are watching/consuming is enjoyable to/benefits them ['Yeah I know Michael Jackson probably molested those kids but his music is fucking awesome!', 'Yeah I know this is a plastic straw but you just can't drink a milkshake through those fucking paper ones' kinda thing]. Again, not saying there is anything necessarily wrong with that either - everyone does it in some form.

WWE covering up a violent murder, the alleged abuse of ring boys, the alleged rape of a woman in a limousine... that isn't someone's 'that's it, I'm done!' moment but getting into bed with the Saudi's financially is? Cool. Okay. Awesome - that was their 'thing' that was 'too much'. It also coincided with a massive downturn in WWE's quality output so the 'I'm done!' becomes a lot easier to follow through on than if it was a time when WWE was churning out awesome content - and that's fine too.

All I'm asking is that people own/acknowledge the hypocrisy - such as those who justify their watching of AEW because 'well the Khan's might have done business with the Saudi's but at least they didn't do what WWE has done!' etc. It was a post aimed at no specific individual. It was a general comment on how we, as people, myself included, overlook or excuse things in our lives if it involves something we enjoy/have use for and heighten the criticism of other things if it is something we do not enjoy/have a need for in our lives.  

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Everyone's got their own breaking point as tastes and sensibilities evolve, we grow older and media organisations are held to more transparent accountability, right? Nobody needs to justify their decision to stop throwing money Vince's way. When they decided it or why. Fucking hell. 

 

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Fine. I don't think people are criticising WWE to be "cool", I think the vast majority, whatever their hypocrisies, are from genuine anger at WWE's actions. 

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16 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Fine. I don't think people are criticising WWE to be "cool", I think the vast majority, whatever their hypocrisies, are from genuine anger at WWE's actions. 

Cool - then let's agree to disagree and move on with our lives. 

18 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said:

 Nobody needs to justify their decision to stop throwing money Vince's way. When they decided it or why. Fucking hell. 

If they make a point of highlighting to others that they are doing it - 'Just so you bunch of people I have never met know - I'm never watching WWE again!' - then, yeah, they kind of do open themselves up for comment about it.
In fact, I dare say declaring they are doing it on social media is actively inviting comment on it. 'Yeah, good for you mate! Me too!' etc etc.

If you are going to do something like that, just fucking do it. 

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3 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Cool - then let's agree to disagree and move on with our lives. 

If they make a point of highlighting to others that they are doing it - 'Just so you bunch of people I have never met know - I'm never watching WWE again!' - then, yeah, they kind of do open themselves up for comment about it.
In fact, I dare say declaring they are doing it on social media is actively inviting comment on it. 'Yeah, good for you mate! Me too!' etc etc.

If you are going to do something like that, just fucking do it. 

I didn't say it shouldn't open them up for comment. I said they shouldn't need to justify it. They still don't.

'Just fucking do it' is almost always a complete cop out. We're posting on a discussion forum. There's invariably going to be a certain amount of discourse about it. I've said it before but I find it quite interesting hearing just how some long term fans like myself who used to practically use the Network as a security blanket have decided to stop. It's not all virtue signalling, and I wouldn't let it chap my ass so. But whatever.

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2 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said:

I didn't say it shouldn't open them up for comment. I said they shouldn't need to justify it. They still don't.

'Just fucking do it' is almost always a complete cop out. We're posting on a discussion forum. There's invariably going to be a certain amount of discourse about it. I've said it before but I find it quite interesting hearing just how some long term fans like myself who used to practically use the Network as a security blanket have decided to stop. It's not all virtue signalling, and I wouldn't let it chap my ass so. But whatever.

There's also the added dimension that a fair few people end up thinking it's pointless to boycott, because they'll be the only one doing it and therefore won't make enough of a difference to change anything. If people see they're not alone in that decision, it encourages more to do so too. Not the best of arguments, granted, as they should just stop regardless of what others are doing, but it's still a significant motivator.

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Welcome on the UKFF:

* Taylor Swift GIFs

* Recipes for biscuits

* Cricket

* Copies of PowerSlam for sale

* Calling Mick Foley a wanker

Unwelcome on the UKFF:

* Sex offenders

* Mention of cancelling the Network

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8 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said:

I didn't say it shouldn't open them up for comment. I said they shouldn't need to justify it. They still don't.

'Just fucking do it' is almost always a complete cop out. We're posting on a discussion forum. There's invariably going to be a certain amount of discourse about it. I've said it before but I find it quite interesting hearing just how some long term fans like myself who used to practically use the Network as a security blanket have decided to stop. It's not all virtue signalling, and I wouldn't let it chap my ass so. But whatever.

My point is that I am sure there are those who were/are outraged about WWE [or whatever] who cancelled their Network subscriptions etc. and DIDN'T feel it necessary to declare it on any public discussion forum. If they chose to declare it that way then that opens their comments up to discussion/critique etc the same as anything else.
Nobody NEEDS to justify anything, you're right - yet that can be the nature of the beast in these situations - you are inviting judgement, comment critique etc.
I shouldn't have to justify any of my comments, same with you, same with anyone- but we chose to make them public consumption [for lack of a better term] in these situations so that's what happens. It's then up to me, you etc. if we choose to justify/engage with what we wrote.

 

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1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

My point is that I am sure there are those who were/are outraged about WWE [or whatever] who cancelled their Network subscriptions etc. and DIDN'T feel it necessary to declare it on any public discussion forum.

Would you say that there is no "one size fits all" solution?

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