Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted August 3, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: Disagree with this one though. He never got lucky against Anderson. People only seem to remember the finishes of those fights but Weidman was smashing him in both fights before the 'lucky punch' and 'noodle leg' endings. I'll concede that in hindsight, we know now that Anderson was on the decline so some of the shine has come off those wins. I think his inconsistency since is mostly down to injuries. I mean, I think Rockhold and Romero probably would've beat him regardless but he's had a bunch of layoffs the last few years. The fact he beat Gastelum not too long ago shows he's an elite fighter. Gastelum is an animal and Weidman took his best and subbed him. 32 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said: Yeah. Weidman to me is more unfulfilled potential, rather than necessarily being overrated. It's not like he was losing to bums too - Rockhold and Romero in particular were/are beasts. Just now, Marshmallo said: Oh another one for me - Robbie Lawler's rise to UFC champion and subsequent decline deserve a lot more scrutiny in terms of "assistance" than anyone gives them. It would get more scrutiny if his two title defences didn't happen when USADA testing was in effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 45 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: Until he fought Condit, Nick Diaz was possibly the most protected fighter in the sport. Look at his record before you @ me. He's not done much. I don't think that's against conventional wisdom Marshmallo. It's commonly accepted that Diaz had a charmed run Strikeforce. He didn't fight bums or anything, but he only fought strikers and fighters he match up well with. 45 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: Dominic Cruz is top 5 of all time P4P and would arguably be #1 if he hadn't got injured. Aye, Cruz gets a bit forgotten about. I think there is a decent case that he's in the top 10 MMA fighters of all-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Jim Bob Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I still really like Joanna Jearzejczyk. I like how determined she is to win her former belt back. Everyone was telling her to move up in weight after the the 2nd Rose fight. When that fight was razor close. I'm not convinced Rose is going to be a dominant champion either. I can see JJ winning the belt back and holding it for ages again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 13 hours ago, wandshogun09 said: But it does get to the point sometimes where it seems to be ALL some fans want to talk about and the ONLY reason they watch. Like the fights have became secondary to the boring facts and figures soap opera behind the scenes. It's surely not why any of us started watching and it must take a lot of the fun out of it. What's even worse is the fans who readily admit to not actually watching the fights but who bang on about the business side of things, as though they have some sort of superior knowledge that those who just enjoy watching fights don't. Those fans tend to only pop up when McGregor or Lesnar or Rousey are fighting, at which point they restart their smug "educating" of those who watch most events and just want to see dudes throw hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 4, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 4, 2018 I guess it comes down to what we mean by an "unpopular opinion" - unpopular on here, or in MMA fandom in general? Because it strikes me that this place tends to diverge wildly at points from the likes of Sherdog and Bloody Elbow. For example: Marshmallo's point about MVP. I agree entirely, but is that an unpopular opinion on here? I was under the impression that a lot of us thought that way now. Likewise the buyrate thing - Keith's point about us being originally wrestling fans is spot on; we tend to view this sort of thing with a very jaded, smarky eye, and this forum, in particular, is what I would call "post-smark". It's gone so far in the indy-wank spot-monkey Super Insider Deluxe direction in the past that it finally exited and came out the other side as almost completely the opposite, and now we love Triple H and Koko B. Ware again. I get the same feeling amongst the MMA fans here: we've gone so far in the "buy-rates buy-rates buy-rates" direction that we've finally leveled out, and most of the opinions we express tend to be based on a balance of recognising both the need for sporting competition and legitimacy, and the need for business acumen in the booking of event cards and promotional materials. I don't believe we'd find that kind of opinion on the main MMA sites; at least, not in the majority. Agreed about Randa Markos; absolutely stunning woman, liked her with black hair too, but Red Randa is very much a thing. I only wish she'd been more successful as a fighter, because she seems really nice, and could've been quite marketable too. My unpopular opinions: Felice Herrig is physically quite attractive, despite being a mediocre (but not uninteresting) fighter, and a complete roaster. I would like to see another mediocre fighter in the vein of Royston Wee brought in and built up with loads of tin cans, because to me that's the nearest you'll get to a chickenshit heel run in real combat sports. If I was making his matches, I'd encourage him to be as obnoxious as possible, and then put him up against a fan favourite elite as a tune-up in which he'd get obliterated. I have heard all the arguments against palm strikes in MMA, and I am not satisfied. I want to see more palm strikes. Soccer kicks, to me, are cynical and unsporting. They only belong in complete Vale Tudo, no holds barred fighting, but in MMA, where rules are in place, I think they're just dirty. Ronda Rousey is an absolute scumbag, a bully, and a home-wrecker. I don't like her as a person, and to be honest I didn't like her as a person when she was still in MMA. But as a fighter she has been subjected to a lot of unfair revisionism. Her game was truly incomplete, and perhaps it really was just a matter of time before she was found out, particularly given that she was never going to evolve commensurately under the "tutelage" of Thank You Edmond, but you don't get to the level she did without being highly skilled at the discipline - until Holm, she beat everyone in front of her, all people that many considered elite, and they simply didn't come up with a solution to her puzzle. It'd be like slagging off the Gracies, saying they were never any good, just because they didn't evolve with the new generations of MMA. Yes, a lot of people drank her Kool Aid, built her up with ridiculous hyperbole, over-stated her striking - but for a long time, she fought in such a manner as to flatter to deceive. Until Holm, her entire fight time added up to the length of just one championship match. One person lasted past the first round, no-one else lasted the first minute, and she finished two of her opponents with strikes in the same length of time, a result of which, given what we knew of her as a judo specialist, people might be forgiven for thinking that she was some prodigious MMA talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Ronda Rousey is an absolute scumbag, a bully, and a home-wrecker. She said a few transphobic things as well, and that's all before we even get to Sandy Hook. Complete trash as a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 4, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Keith Houchen said: She said a few transphobic things as well, and that's all before we even get to Sandy Hook. Complete trash as a person. Yep - I used "scumbag" to try and cover all those things. What did it for me was the Sandy Hook thing, but everything else is just garnish on a big pile of turds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 5, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 5, 2018 On 8/4/2018 at 3:10 PM, Carbomb said: now we love Koko B. Ware again. Fuck yeah we do! (I deleted Triple H). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Hank Cejudo has a raging messiah complex. And shit, bobble head-esque hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 7, 2018 I've said it a bunch of times on here but - Cain Velasquez is a tremendous fighter but he is NOT the best heavyweight of all time. Not having it. He never overtook Fedor for me and Stipe probably outdid both of them during his reign. Fuck, I think you could even make a case that DC has a better overall heavyweight résumé than his best pal Cain, or he's at least about level with him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Darren Till’s latest interview that’s upset everyone wasn’t even slightly controversial. Thats exactly the level of dedication we really expect from athletes, he’s just the first to voice what that dedication to your craft really means. We’ve all chosen to believe the delusion that you can be 100% dedicated to being the best martial artist ever and still be the best husband and dad ever. All those wives and kids who post social media pictures of their champion husband/dad and say he’s the best ever? They’ve just normalised the compromise. Everytime you have to go away for months on end, all the hard sparring, not being able to eat like a human being, fighting itself (particularly if you’ve already made a decent amount of money)? ...that’s all a massive fuck you to your family. Everyone getting mad at Till is just a sensitive Suzy who doesn’t like hearing the blunt reality of life as an elite athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I'll believe Till's dedication chat when he finds it within himself to be dedicated enough to lay off the jam doughnuts from ASDA and make weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 33 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: He never overtook Fedor for me and Stipe probably outdid both of them I still not convinced that Stipe belongs on the same level as Fedor. I think Miocic is the best heavyweight in UFC history. But Fedor still holds the distinction of being the best heavyweight in MMA history. I don't think Stipe's title reign was as good as Fedor's. They both defended their version of the world title 3 times. Stipe's defences: Overeem, JDS, Ngannou Fedor's defences: Cro Cop, Big Nog, Hunt I think wins over peak versions of Cro Cop and Nog outweigh wins over Overeem a slightly past his best JDS. I am not sure how I would compare Hunt circa 2006 and Ngannou. Nevertheless, I am still confident enough to claim that Fedor's actual title reign was stronger. Fedor also competed in a ton of non-title fights when he was champion. Granted, a lot of those fights came against cans. However, there were a few decent names mixed in (Coleman X2, Randleman, Fujita etc). Outside of their titles reigns, Fedor holds wins over Arlovski (absolute peak version), Sylvia, Herring (peak version), Rogers and Schilt. I will ignore his wins over Arona, Sobral and Lindland because those three were not really heavyweights. By contrast, Miocic holds wins over Hunt, Gonzaga, Nelson, SDR and an ageing Arlovski. There isn't much between those groups of wins. But again, I would lean slightly towards Fedor's set of wins being the more impressive. I also think that the 2004 version of Fedor (the one who fought Big Nog at Shockwave 2004) would beat any version of Miocic. Cain at his 2010-2012 peak would probably beat the best versions of both. But, as has been discussed in the past, Cain didn't have a long enough run to build a resume comparable to the ones that Miocic and Fedor amounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 7, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: I've said it a bunch of times on here but - Cain Velasquez is a tremendous fighter but he is NOT the best heavyweight of all time. Not having it. He never overtook Fedor for me and Stipe probably outdid both of them during his reign. Fuck, I think you could even make a case that DC has a better overall heavyweight résumé than his best pal Cain, or he's at least about level with him now. I agree. And I'll go one even further and even more unpopular, and say I don't get what makes him elite. I mean I know he's been incredibly successful, and a lot of people didn't figure him out, so clearly he's a tremendous fighter, but when I watch him fight, I really don't understand why more people couldn't figure him out - his style of fighting looks like it's out of a previous era of MMA, quite crude by comparison to newer styles, and yet, somehow, it took ages for anyone to get past him. Just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 7, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 7, 2018 Cain is still number 1 for me. If prime Cain and prime Stipe fought theres only 1 winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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