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wandshogun09
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Seeing as it's all the rage in the other wings of the forum, thought it might be worth a go here. Plus we could do with some different topics other than just event threads everywhere. 

I'll kick off with a few.

1) Bruce Buffer is shite. Of all the old Zuffa crew who either got fucked off or left of their own accord when the UFC was sold, I'd trade any of them back for Shouty Bruce. He's revered and put on this pedestal by most MMA fans as the 'voice of the UFC' but he's still crap. Hence why he tries to distract from that fact by doing his silly little jumps and 360 spins like a div, and why he wears jackets that are louder than his intros. Not a patch on his velvet voiced brother. When I switch on a UFC show and see that Joe Martinez is MCing instead of Brucey, I get all happy. It's become one of my rare pleasures, like when you pick up an old pair of jeans and find a tenner in the pocket. 

 

2) Brock Lesnar - I'd rather see him in Bellator. There, I said it. Don't get me wrong, I'll take him coming back to the UFC any day and I'm buzzing for this fight with Cormier. But at this stage, there aren't many fights in the UFC I want to see him in. Whereas in Bellator they could do finally do Brock vs Fedor, Brock vs Cro Cop. Yeah, yeah, I get that those fights are too late and I get that from a business POV, the UFC is absolutely where he should be. But fuck it. I'll admit it. My real and sole reason for putting this in is because I want to see Brock batter Frank Mir again. 

TItckQ.jpg

Never gets old. Never. 

 

3) Stephan Bonnar should've won TUF 1. Yeah, I had him beating Forrest Griffin. Wasn't a robbery or anything but I sometimes (OK, not often) wonder how differently their careers might've played out if Bonnar got the decision that night and got the opportunities (fights with Tito, Shogun etc) and promotion (prominent PPV spots, coaching TUF etc) post-TUF that Forrest got. 

 

4) Randa Markos, especially since dying her hair red, is low key one of the sexiest women in the sport. A random and useless observation but I'm mixing it up and throwing it in there. I don't know what it is about Red Randa that does it for me but I never see anyone mention her when the shallow topic of hot MMA ladies comes up. Even the Triple H nose doesn't put me off. I think she's gorgeous looking. 

0QXWKb.jpg

 

5) Demetrious Johnson is the man. Don't care what you say. He's awesome to watch in the cage, seems a good guy out of it and is making history. A fucking German suplex into an armbar. Seamlessly. Who does that shit? 

 

I could go on but I'll stop there. Over to you. 

 

Edited by wandshogun09
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I'd certainly rather hear her shout than Bruce Buffer :devil:

And @Keith Houchen I agree. I've got no problem with some of that PPV buyrate/business talk. It's inevitable that it'll come up sometimes because you almost have to have some knowledge of that side of things to understand why certain decisions are made regarding fight bookings, card positioning etc. But it does get to the point sometimes where it seems to be ALL some fans want to talk about and the ONLY reason they watch. Like the fights have became secondary to the boring facts and figures soap opera behind the scenes. It's surely not why any of us started watching and it must take a lot of the fun out of it.

It reminds me of when Al Snow says a wrestling match is only a good match if it draws. What a joyless way to watch anything. I wonder if people like that do the same when they watch a film. 'Was that a good film? Well I enjoyed it. Wonder what it did at the box office. Oh, it flopped. It was crap then.' Or do they watch an episode of Corrie then frantically check for the BARB ratings? Just don't get why you'd particularly care how many people watched something. As long as you enjoyed it, then surely it's all good in the hood.

I also find it odd how some fans get so bothered when a fighter doesn't 'get it' or 'play the game' as well. If they make less money because they're not the best at promoting themselves, what's it to any of us? It's their money if they make it and it's their loss if they don't. But you sometimes see really angry backlash against those fighters for not 'moving the needle' (hate that phrase) like it personally effects them. I put a lot of the blame for the increase in this kind of talk on Brendan Schaub. Just because. It's definitely creeped in a lot more since he started banging on about it all the time. 

Edited by wandshogun09
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- Griffin vs Bonnar is massively overrated as a fight. It was a decent brawl that occurred on the right night. 

- The MMA landscape was at its best in 2006. You had two major organisations with vibrant and stacked rosters. You also had WFA and Strikeforce churning out major shows in California. The sport had yet to be overexposed. Everything was still relatively fresh, even to those who had followed the sport for years. 

- Pat Miletich is the best MMA coach of all-time. 

- Mighty Mouse and Jon Jones are not on GSP's level.

- In retrospect, Anderson Silva was a bit overrated. 

-¬†Angela Maga√Īa is a pretty bad human being. But she isn't unattractive physically¬†(sorry Wand)

 

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21 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

I'd certainly rather hear her shout than Bruce Buffer :devil:

And @Keith Houchen I agree. I've got no problem with some of that PPV buyrate/business talk. It's inevitable that it'll come up sometimes because you almost have to have some knowledge of that side of things to understand why certain decisions are made regarding fight bookings, card positioning etc. But it does get to the point sometimes where it seems to be ALL some fans want to talk about and the ONLY reason they watch. Like the fights have became secondary to the boring facts and figures soap opera behind the scenes. It's surely not why any of us started watching and it must take a lot of the fun out of it.

It reminds me of when Al Snow says a wrestling match is only a good match if it draws. What a joyless way to watch anything. I wonder if people like that do the same when they watch a film. 'Was that a good film? Well I enjoyed it. Wonder what it did at the box office. Oh, it flopped. It was crap then.' Or do they watch an episode of Corrie then frantically check for the BARB ratings? Just don't get why you'd particularly care how many people watched something. As long as you enjoyed it, then surely it's all good in the hood.

I also find it odd how some fans get so bothered when a fighter doesn't 'get it' or 'play the game' as well. If they make less money because they're not the best at promoting themselves, what's it to any of us? It's their money if they make it and it's their loss if they don't. But you sometimes see really angry backlash against those fighters for not 'moving the needle' (hate that phrase) like it personally effects them. I put a lot of the blame for the increase in this kind of talk on Brendan Schaub. Just because. It's definitely creeped in a lot more since he started banging on about it all the time. 

Exactly.  I maintain we have it on here because this is first and foremost a wrestling board, so people are posting from a wrestling fan perspective where buyrates actually matter.  Yeah big Timmy was dull as fuck, but he earned that belt by being the best, not because he got it as press conferences.  You can tell which MMA fans are sports fans and which ones aren't.

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Dull fighters are the worst, though.

I don't care about being a proper sports fan or not, UFC at it's best is proper sport & entertainment.

DC v Jones, for example, wouldn't have been nearly as compelling if it was just two God fearing gents fighting a good fight and shaking hands. Good fights with two of the very best, no doubt, but throw me in some hotel brawls and trash talk.

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A few interesting ones there, Jim. 

59 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

- Griffin vs Bonnar is massively overrated as a fight. It was a decent brawl that occurred on the right night. 

I can agree with this. It was a good scrap, no doubt. But it's the significance of that fight for what it did for the UFC at the time that has people rating it higher than it probably should be. Watching the fight on face value without the context or backstory, it's just a fun brawl. It's not even the best brawl in MMA history, much less best fight overall. It's got nothing on Justin Gaethje's last few fights or Wanderlei Silva vs Brian Stann, for example. 

59 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

- The MMA landscape was at its best in 2006. You had two major organisations with vibrant and stacked rosters. You also had WFA and Strikeforce churning out major shows in California. The sport had yet to be overexposed. Everything was still relatively fresh, even to those who had followed the sport for years. 

Agree with this as well. I'd extend it from 2006-2010ish myself. That was a magical period to be an MMA fan. You had the UFC coming into big boy form off the success of TUF and getting the Spike deal. You had the tail end of Pride which, despite coming to the end, they were still banging out some fine shows. You had Strikeforce coming to prominence. WEC really found its niche in this period, consistently delivering quality shows. You had K-1 HERO'S, which I still think was underrated for the short time it was a thing. Cage Rage was at its ridiculous best back then. Fuck, even Affliction, flawed as they were, gave us two enjoyable shows en route to losing all their dough. TUF was still fresh. You had first run Brock at the peak of his powers. GSP, Anderson and BJ Penn all in their primes. Kimbo was still with us. The UFC vs Pride matchups after Pride went for a burton. That whole period around UFC 100. If you weren't watching at the time I can't fully do it justice. The buzz going into that show was unreal. I don't think they've ever quite matched it. Even with those huge McGregor and Rousey nights. UFC 100 in the summer of 2009 was something else. I'll never forget the anticipation and checking the MMA sites constantly post-UFC 100 because that's when those UFC/Fedor negotiations were going down. I've never been as obsessively checking for news on MMA before or since that. Then it came to nothing. But yeah, 2006-10 was a brilliant time to follow MMA. 

59 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

- Pat Miletich is the best MMA coach of all-time. 

Never really thought of that but there's certainly a case to be made. He's definitely right in the convo. People probably forget but in the early-mid 2000s, Team Miletich were THE team in MMA. Prime Matt Hughes when he was a monster, Jens Pulver before the decline when he was sharp, I've always been a big Jeremy Horn fan, and Pat himself was no jobber. His biggest success story is undoubtedly Tim Sylvia though. I'm sure Sylvia has even admitted that he was a useless 7ft lump when he came to the gym. Miletich took him from that to world champion. Granted, the UFC heavyweight division didn't have the deepest pool of talent back then but it's still pretty impressive. Sylvia under Miletich was Sylvia at his best as well. People remember Timmy at the end when he was fat as fuck getting KO'd by Ray Mercer but once upon a time he was legit. 

59 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

- In retrospect, Anderson Silva was a bit overrated. 

Whoa, hang on a minute. Watch yourself buddy. 

59 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

- Angela Maga√Īa is a pretty bad human being. But she isn't unattractive physically¬†(sorry Wand)

Apology not accepted. Get out.

Edited by wandshogun09
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Not sure how unpopular some of these are but they don't seem to be conventional wisdom from what I've read/listened to:

- Dominic Cruz is top 5 of all time P4P and would arguably be #1 if he hadn't got injured.

- Chris Weidman is the most overrated fighter in MMA history and got unbelievably lucky twice against Anderson. He has achieved nothing spectacular outside of that and has been found out on numerous occasions.

- Jackson/Winklejohn haven't been relevant as top end coaches for the last 5 years.

- Michael Page will get found out the second he fights a legitimate opponent.

- Paul Daley is a midcarder with one relevant win in the last 8 years.

- Until he fought Condit, Nick Diaz was possibly the most protected fighter in the sport. Look at his record before you @ me. He's not done much.

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15 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

His biggest success story is undoubtedly Tim Sylvia though. I'm sure Sylvia has even admitted that he was a useless 7ft lump when he came to the gym. Miletich took him from that to world champion.

That's pretty much my argument in a nutshell. When the likes of GSP and Jones turned up at Jackson's gym they just needed refinement. Same with Anderson when he switched to training with Big Nog at Black House. Sylvia needed a hell of a lot more than that. I've heard horror stories about his earlier fights. Pat turned him into a better fighter than he had any right to be. He was never in Fedor's league or anything, but he was a world-class heavyweight. 

Pat did an admirable job with Hughes as well. I think Hughes would have been a player if he had trained elsewhere, but perhaps not to the same extent. For a brief period in mid-2006, 3 out of the 4 UFC Champions trained at his camp (Timmy, Hughes, Franklin). 

I guess the only knock against Pat is that Lawler went on to be a better fighter when he left his camp. Although, I am not sure why that was. 

17 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

But yeah, 2006-10 was a brilliant time to follow MMA.¬†ÔĽŅ

100% agreed

As a fan, you really felt you were part of something special during that period. 

26 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

Apology not accepted. Get out.

We've had praise for Covington, Magana and Big Timmey in this thread. 

Who is going to really stick it to Wand and admit they enjoy a bit of Brendan Schaub. 

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8 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

- Michael Page will get found out the second he fights a legitimate opponent.

This is one I meant to include in the opening post. Don't know if I'd go as far as to say he'll be 'found out' but I do feel like he's going to look a LOT less impressive when he actually fights someone good. He's not going to get away with half that flashy shit everyone's lapping up once his level of opposition is stepped up. 

13 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

- Chris Weidman is the most overrated fighter in MMA history and got unbelievably lucky twice against Anderson. He has achieved nothing spectacular outside of that and has been found out on numerous occasions.

Disagree with this one though. He never got lucky against Anderson. People only seem to remember the finishes of those fights but Weidman was smashing him in both fights before the 'lucky punch' and 'noodle leg' endings. I'll concede that in hindsight, we know now that Anderson was on the decline so some of the shine has come off those wins. I think his inconsistency since is mostly down to injuries. I mean, I think Rockhold and Romero probably would've beat him regardless but he's had a bunch of layoffs the last few years. The fact he beat Gastelum not too long ago shows he's an elite fighter. Gastelum is an animal and Weidman took his best and subbed him. 

16 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

I guess the only knock against Pat is that Lawler went on to be a better fighter when he left his camp. Although, I am not sure why that was.

I put that down to Lawler's age at the time. Miletich got Lawler when he was very young, inexperienced and raw. Lawler later became a more smart and technical brawler. Back then he was just a wild 20 year old banger. If Miletich somehow had the more mature Robbie Lawler back in 2003ish, I'm sure he'd have been just as successful. 

23 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

Who is going to really stick it to Wand and admit they enjoy a bit of Brendan Schaub. 

I just pity people who like Schaub. They don't know any better. You know when you see an electrical appliance with a warning on, presumably for dunces, saying 'DO NOT USE IN THE SHOWER'? That's for Schaub fans. Beyond help. 

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