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1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

WWE "legends" from that point onward were destined to either be booked as if they were just as good as they were in their prime - contrast to guys like Backlund and Jake in the '90s, where "have they still got what it takes?" was a real element of their character - or reduced to one-note caricatures who are all best mates, and will dance around backstage in gear they haven't worn for thirty years, then Ron Simmons pulls a face. Ricky Steamboat showing up in backstage segments in his sodding karate gi. One way or another, they started booking to their history, rather than their present - the top stars of today are never as important as someone who main evented in 1998, and never will be. 

That's part of what was so refreshing about that Jake Roberts debut promo in AEW. He wasn't out there doing what he's always done - he was out there with new motivations, new plans and a new wrestler to build up. Sure, he's brought back the snake (hopefully as a one-off), but otherwise, this was a new and vaguely relevant Jake Roberts.

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This gets repeated a lot, and there's an element of truth to it, but we also live in a time when people are prepared to binge-watch an entire TV series in one sitting rather than watching one half hou

The more you think about it, logically, wrestling is silly old shite that no one should take that seriously.

I dunno how to break it to you lot but based on the average life expectancy of a standard pro wrestler, Rene Dupree is almost certainly dead. RIP.

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Ric Flair deserves to be looked at by wrestling fans in the same way as Hulk Hogan is now.

There are multiple accounts of him exposing himself to women and it’s kind of treated as a ‘haha’ story or not that big a deal by those telling it. I realise I’m preaching to the choir here but clearly, this isn’t a ‘haha’ story, it’s quite literally a sex crime. 

I’ve only learned about these allegations recently, and it’s turned Flair from one of my all-time favourites into a symbol for the culture in wrestling that led to the Speaking Out movement.

His significant contribution to the wrestling industry, in my opinion, should be recognised without being celebrated. 

Possibly a bit too serious for this thread, possibly even merits a thread of its own, but the idea of a second thread on how fucking disgusting wrestling can be depresses me.

Edited by RedRooster
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47 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

I’ve only learned about these allegations recently

How?? I can't even begin to count the number of different places I've heard/read stories of Flair's behaviour, dating back at least 15/20 years.  I agree with your general point though. 

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8 hours ago, LaGoosh said:

Agree completely. I think this match and the HBK/Undertaker matches were probably the worst thing to happen to WWE long term for me. It made the company focus on nostalgia and forced moments, and turned the match style into endless forced finisher spamming "epics".

I don’t think this is a fair comparison. Michaels and The Undertaker at the times of their two matches were still viable main eventers on merit, not coasting on reputation, and delivered two matches that delivered as matches, compared to Rock/Hogan which was 80% atmosphere 20% novelty and featured Hogan positioned as the equal of one of the company’s biggest guns after their own rhetoric had declared him past it for over 5 years.

I will say that the finisher thing however is true. In the second match Michaels coming back to score near falls after receiving a Tombstone on the floor was ridiculous.

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31 minutes ago, CTXRussomark said:

How?? I can't even begin to count the number of different places I've heard/read stories of Flair's behaviour, dating back at least 15/20 years.  I agree with your general point though. 

I started watching wrestling in late 2002 when I was 15. My early wrestling diet consisted of wrestlinginc.com and opinion pieces on Pwtorch.com, none of which mentioned Flair’s extra curricular activities.

I’m not sure when I became aware of his womanising, but there’s every chance I dismissed it as gimmickry and bullshit early on. I didn’t know about his tendency to expose himself until this year though. through Jim Ross’s first book and a Conrad Thomson podcast. I forget which one. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, air_raid said:

I don’t think this is a fair comparison. Michaels and The Undertaker at the times of their two matches were still viable main eventers on merit, not coasting on reputation, and delivered two matches that delivered as matches, compared to Rock/Hogan which was 80% atmosphere 20% novelty and featured Hogan positioned as the equal of one of the company’s biggest guns after their own rhetoric had declared him past it for over 5 years.

I will say that the finisher thing however is true. In the second match Michaels coming back to score near falls after receiving a Tombstone on the floor was ridiculous.

I don't think the HBK/Undertaker match was a finisher spamming forced nostalgia epic. It's a great match with a fantastic story leading into it. I do think though that the high praise and success of those matches definitely influenced how WWE did things going forwards though with endless forced attempts to create similar epic matches and moments with little to no success and at massive damage to the product, completely missing everything that made those original two matches so special. 

Edited by LaGoosh
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36 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I don't think the HBK/Undertaker match was a finisher spamming forced nostalgia epic. It's a great match with a fantastic story leading into it. I do think though that the high praise and success of those matches definitely influenced how WWE did things going forwards though with endless forced attempts to create similar epic matches and moments with little to no success and at massive damage to the product, completely missing everything that made those original two matches so special. 

That's standard WWE since about 2006. Something works better than planned, have a go of it's arse til it doesn't resemble itself any more

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5 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Ric Flair deserves to be looked at by wrestling fans in the same way as Hulk Hogan is now.

There are multiple accounts of him exposing himself to women and it’s kind of treated as a ‘haha’ story or not that big a deal by those telling it. I realise I’m preaching to the choir here but clearly, this isn’t a ‘haha’ story, it’s quite literally a sex crime. 

I’ve only learned about these allegations recently, and it’s turned Flair from one of my all-time favourites into a symbol for the culture in wrestling that led to the Speaking Out movement.

His significant contribution to the wrestling industry, in my opinion, should be recognised without being celebrated. 

Possibly a bit too serious for this thread, possibly even merits a thread of its own, but the idea of a second thread on how fucking disgusting wrestling can be depresses me.

 

I'm just as amazed Jerry Lawler has not been metoo'd yet. If even a 10th of the stories about him are true. Fucking hell

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