Paid Members WeeAl Posted August 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2018 I hope Cejudo stays at 125. It's a shame to say it, but I'm more interested in DJ now than ever before, now that he has lost the belt, as it has given him a rivalry. A third fight, over the belt is a must. Heck, they could even then do a fourth fight down the line, title or non title, if the third match is close. I'd also rather see Dillashaw Vs Cruz again, or Dillashaw Vs Moraes. This whole superfight carry on is all well and good if you're talking about Anderson Vs GSP, Cormier Vs Miocic, Penn Vs GSP etc. Dillashaw and Cejudo would be a great fight, sure, but I don't think it holds any extra interest than a few of the other options in their respective divisions, for me anyway that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2018 1 hour ago, David said: It's not an excuse, things happen in fights, but to dismiss these factors completely is absurd. I'm not dismissing them. It's a fight, injuries that happen during the heat of battle are par for the course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, wandshogun09 said: I don't think Cejudo vs TJ or DJ are 'money fights'. I don't think there are any big money fights below 155 at the moment, to be honest. It's what tickled me when everyone was giving DJ shit for 'being an idiot' and missing out on that monster payday vs Dillashaw. TJ vs DJ would've been an awesome fight but a money fight it wasn't. Is there any actual evidence that DJ would've made more money fighting Dillashaw than he would've for a standard title defence against Random Flyweight #12? People assume a champ vs champ fight automatically means big $$$, and it should do really, but your pay and PPV cut (if you have one) is what it is and the PPV cut only generates truly big bucks if it's a fight that shifts a lot of buys. I doubt TJ vs DJ would've pulled in too many buys. And Cejudo vs either of them might do even less. It's a shame because there are loads of great fighters in the lower weight classes but, truthfully, there hasn't been a 'big money' fight even possible south of 155 since McGregor left featherweight and the Rousey era came to a crashing halt. Even Holloway vs Ortega, for me personally that's easily one of my most anticipated fights of the year, but unless it's on the Khabib vs McGregor or Cormier vs Lesnar PPV or something and they get a PPV %, they're probably not making much more than their base pay. There has to be some kind of financial benefits, maybe not a ton but there has to be some, the reward if successful is what you're after. I think the biggest DJ gripe is that he neglected or showed no desire to take a fight people were interested in and chose to beat contenders of little interest at 125. Edited August 6, 2018 by Egg Shen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2018 Not a gripe for me. As I mentioned above, he knows himself, so I don't blame him for wanting to "manage" his career a little (let's face it, somebody had to in light of the UFC's apparent lack of enthusiasm), especially given how he'd fought everyone put in front of him until the TJ offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted August 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2018 Duane Ludwig said he wants the Cejudo fight, but it only makes sense at Flyweight. Apparently, they were definitely going to pursue the TJ fight after he bested Cody. Still sort of blown away by what Cejudo managed to do. Considering the shape of his leg early in the 1st, he found a way to get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 6, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2018 1 hour ago, WeeAl said: I hope Cejudo stays at 125. It's a shame to say it, but I'm more interested in DJ now than ever before, now that he has lost the belt, as it has given him a rivalry. A third fight, over the belt is a must. Heck, they could even then do a fourth fight down the line, title or non title, if the third match is close. I'd also rather see Dillashaw Vs Cruz again, or Dillashaw Vs Moraes. Yeah, that was my thinking at the end of the show when Anik, DC and Rogan were doing the 'what's next?' bit. As much as I'd be happy to watch TJ vs Cejudo if it gets made, I'd be more into Cejudo vs DJ 3 and Dillashaw vs Cruz or Moraes. I actually think Dillashaw vs Moraes is the best actual fight of the lot. That would be fantastic. 46 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: There has to be some kind of financial benefits, maybe not a ton but there has to be some, the reward if successful is what you're after. What's the reward after you're successful though? What's bigger, on paper, than the champ vs champ fight? And in this case, that wasn't particularly big either. Plus, wasn't the TJ vs DJ talk at the time that TJ would come down to flyweight. So it's not even like Mouse had the opportunity to win another title because only his would've been on the line. Plus the 'reward if you're successful' as a carrot dangled isn't worth shit really. We've seen countless examples of fighters being told publicly 'if you beat ____ you get ______', only for Dana to do a complete u-turn after the fact. It's easy for everyone to say 'money fight' this and that but when it comes down to it nobody can actually point to any evidence that there is more money in these 'superfights'. Yet they still want to crap on fighters and call them 'idiots who missed out on a huge payday' and shite like that. When in reality, these 'huge paydays' don't exist. They're a myth. Like, I wonder if Amanda Nunes will make more money fighting Cyborg? That's champ vs champ. But I bet her cheque won't be much different than when she fought Raquel Pennington? If the Dillashaw fight was such a big money spinner like people said, DJ would've jumped all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 6, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) 56 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: Yeah, that was my thinking at the end of the show when Anik, DC and Rogan were doing the 'what's next?' bit. As much as I'd be happy to watch TJ vs Cejudo if it gets made, I'd be more into Cejudo vs DJ 3 and Dillashaw vs Cruz or Moraes. I actually think Dillashaw vs Moraes is the best actual fight of the lot. That would be fantastic. What's the reward after you're successful though? What's bigger, on paper, than the champ vs champ fight? And in this case, that wasn't particularly big either. Plus, wasn't the TJ vs DJ talk at the time that TJ would come down to flyweight. So it's not even like Mouse had the opportunity to win another title because only his would've been on the line. Plus the 'reward if you're successful' as a carrot dangled isn't worth shit really. We've seen countless examples of fighters being told publicly 'if you beat ____ you get ______', only for Dana to do a complete u-turn after the fact. It's easy for everyone to say 'money fight' this and that but when it comes down to it nobody can actually point to any evidence that there is more money in these 'superfights'. Yet they still want to crap on fighters and call them 'idiots who missed out on a huge payday' and shite like that. When in reality, these 'huge paydays' don't exist. They're a myth. Like, I wonder if Amanda Nunes will make more money fighting Cyborg? That's champ vs champ. But I bet her cheque won't be much different than when she fought Raquel Pennington? If the Dillashaw fight was such a big money spinner like people said, DJ would've jumped all over it. I guess the reward outside of money is just boosting your profile and building a real legacy in the sport. An example of sorts is Mikey Garcia in boxing is on a mission to move through the weight classes, challenge himself, win belts, and become a true p4p great, he's apparently turned down millions of dollars from promoters to do so as well. If you wanna look at MMA, it's exactly what Conor McGregor did, it worked out ok for him. Cejudo seems to have that kind of mindset. You can argue that Cejudo is getting ahead of himself, but I admire the ambition. Edited August 6, 2018 by Egg Shen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 6, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Egg Shen said: I guess the reward outside of money is just boosting your profile and building a real legacy in the sport. I get that but in this case specifically, people were calling it a 'money fight' and acting like DJ was a fool who'd missed out on some mega cheque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 7 hours ago, wandshogun09 said: I get that but in this case specifically, people were calling it a 'money fight' and acting like DJ was a fool who'd missed out on some mega cheque. Yeah, but said "people" were probably the kind of idiots who were mentioned in the unpopular opinion thread. The types who are that wrapped up in the money, numbers, and business bullshit that they are essentially the polar opposite of the mentalists who refuse to acknowledge the money side of what they think is a "sport." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 7, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 7, 2018 7 hours ago, wandshogun09 said: I get that but in this case specifically, people were calling it a 'money fight' and acting like DJ was a fool who'd missed out on some mega cheque. I dont disagree with that. I do think DJ missed out on a massive opportunity though. For years everyone (exluding a vocal minority), including us here would have a moan whenever a DJ title defence would get announced (Wilson Reis really?, Ray Borg really?), DJ cleaned out the division twice over, yet not once did he ever show any real ambition to challenge himself and go up. There's fuck all that says he has too, and there's nothing wrong with staying in your division, but DJ could have elevated his career to the next level if he'd done so. Cejudo has pretty much used DJ's legacy in his favour, hes the man that beat the man, now hes calling his own shots, and looking at bigger, better things, it was a very smart move. Cejudo - Olympic Champion, Flyweight Champion, Bantameight Champion? Johnson - Flyweight Champion, plays Xbox. Cejudo is on a mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) I hear all that and agree with a lot of it. But we also have to remember that the last time DJ was at 135 he got dominated by Dominick Cruz. Granted, he's improved a lot since then but so have the bantamweights. DJ is a flyweight. It's where he fights best. Everyone's obsessed with guys bouncing around the weight classes but there's nothing wrong with knowing what division you're supposed to be in and staying there. How would DJ's legacy look now if he'd jumped up and down the divisions over the years and picked up losses along the way to a prime Barao or Dillashaw or Garbrandt or whoever? Dont get me wrong, I'd have liked to have seen those fights too. I just don't think he's at his best above 125. And if he's not at his best and he's fighting the killers of the 135 class, he's going to lose. Then his momentum is fucked, his confidence takes a knock, not to mention damage he might've taken at the higher weight. Then he comes back to 125 less than what he was and probably never has that record breaking title defence streak. All for the sake of BJ Penning it and fighting in a division that isn't the best for him to please people on the internet that he'll never meet. Also, people love to point to his defences against Reis or Borg etc, but what about him beating John Dodson twice and dominating him the second time? Going 2-0 over Benavidez and renducing him to hanging around like a spare bollock for years? Stopping Cejudo in a round in their first fight? People can cherry pick all they want but every champion has some defences against less interesting challengers. And half the reason they're not interesting in the first place is because the UFC and Dana put zero effort into promoting them and often put their fights during their road to the title shot on Fight Pass/Facebook streams etc. They weren't shit fighters, just nobody was invested in them because they were jerking curtains previously. And fuck Cejudo and his mission. First he steals Frank Shamrock's face, now he's stolen DJ's belt. Little prick. Edited August 7, 2018 by wandshogun09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 7, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 7, 2018 Was going to say. DJ moved down for a very good reason. Until the Cejudo loss, the only losses he'd ever sustained were at 135, and if he were to move back up, I don't think he'd get the revenge win against Cruz even now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 hours ago, Egg Shen said: I dont disagree with that. I do think DJ missed out on a massive opportunity though. For years everyone (exluding a vocal minority), including us here would have a moan whenever a DJ title defence would get announced (Wilson Reis really?, Ray Borg really?), DJ cleaned out the division twice over, yet not once did he ever show any real ambition to challenge himself and go up. There's fuck all that says he has too, and there's nothing wrong with staying in your division, but DJ could have elevated his career to the next level if he'd done so. Cejudo has pretty much used DJ's legacy in his favour, hes the man that beat the man, now hes calling his own shots, and looking at bigger, better things, it was a very smart move. Cejudo - Olympic Champion, Flyweight Champion, Bantameight Champion? Johnson - Flyweight Champion, plays Xbox. Cejudo is on a mission. A massive opportunity for what, though? To prove to some plebs who badmouth him on social media that he's an all-time great? What does any of that shite matter? I'm sure if the UFC had said to him, "okay Demetrious, we want you to move up a weight level, and because we recognise that takes you out of your natural weight class we're going to pay you $750,000 to do so" he'd have been well up for it. All this "do it for your legacy, your standing with the fans etc" is the equivalent of those mugs who work in the arts and get conned into doing proper work for companies who don't pay fuck all but claim it'll be "great exposure." Exposure don't pay the rent, and neither does legacy or a poxy UFC Hall of Fame plaque in 10 years time. Cejudo finds it hard to cut to flyweight, so it makes sense that he'd move up. DJ is still relatively small even in his current weight class, so why move up? There's not really going to be any extra money involved, certainly not enough to make it worth his while, so where's the attraction? Besides the bullshit legacy nonsense that no one gives a fuck about? Your post should have read - Cejudo - Olympic Champion, Flyweight Champion, Bantameight Champion? Johnson - Flyweight Champion, content family man, non-CTE sufferer, all-time great, and most importantly, someone who isn't defined by their job and what a bunch of people he doesn't even know think about him. Dudes happy and secure in himself. Let Hank chase the dreams and walk about thinking he's touching people's lives like some sort of fucking messiah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted August 7, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 7, 2018 What's your beef with Cejudo? He seems like a really decent person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 7, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 7, 2018 Not that it's likely to happen for a long time, if at all, but should a Strawweight men's division be instituted, I wonder how DJ would do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.