Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 12, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, d-d-d-dAz said: Slagging of Ngannou is absolutely the logical move for the UFC. Their positioning in the market is as the elite MMA competition in the world and their public relations persona is that of a populist: so their pitch to the market as a whole, and their key differentiator, is ‘we have the best fighters’ (I.e. we’re the only place for elite competition, if you’re a fan watch us, if you’re a fighter work for us) and ‘we’re going to make the fights the fans want to see’ (which makes a Lesnar/Cormier or a Conor/Nate acceptable). Ngannou left UFC 226 where you can’t make the argument that he’s the former (no one’s saying he’s a P4P star any time), nor are fans clamouring for him to get back in there. If you’re the UFC, and you’re based on a brand first business model, why associate with that? Why say ‘hey, shit happens, this can happen to anyone?’ Because then you can start insidiously laying the seed in fans minds that those sort of fights can happen on any show. It’s absolutely logical to get out in front and blame Ngannou’s performance on an external factor. ‘It’s his ego’...boom, let’s box that off and forget about it. It was HIS fault. Even if Dana had gone down the route of just saying ‘hey, the loss got to him’ that’s a risky move too: everyone loses, so can they all turn to shit? It’s morally questionable sure, but if you don’t fit with in the value proposition of the UFC’s business model (elite and/or ‘popular at the time’) then you should absolutely expect to be thrown under the bus and to have it pointed out why your performance is no reflection on the UFC, nor does it have any impact on any future UFC shows. Brand first, baby. It’s morally dubious, but if my job title was UFC President id have done the same thing. If that is genuinely their approach, it's stupid. I get the logic, but that's assuming that the fans are complete and utter simpletons who will believe anything Uncle Dana says to reassure them that anything that happens to spoil their viewing pleasure isn't the company's fault. I very much doubt that there are enough people watching who are idiotic enough to believe the UFC brand is at fault if and when a potentially exciting match unexpectedly turns out to be a damp squib, or when a much-touted fighter goes to seed completely against expectation. There are boring fights. It happens, even at the top level. Not every fighter is going to be the GOAT, even at the top level. All the UFC have to do is keep on churning out shows and fights with high-level combatants in them, with some good marketing to pique interest. They've already got an almost WWE-like brand recognition anyway. In fact, the logic of the latter in your post would suggest that White should have carte blanche to slag off every boring fighter on the roster, no matter how successful they are. Not down with that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 12, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2018 Yeah. I think Dana was mainly a bit annoyed that he was left with some egg on his face. Everyone in and around the UFC has built Ngannou up as the some indomitable super athlete, but that has been exposed as a bit of a lie in his last two bouts. While it's not something I agree with, I do get why the UFC are looking to distance themselves after the hype job they did. As dAz points out, it's not the UFC lying to you, it's Ngannou's ego - that's the spin. Ngannou can get back to where he was with a couple of quick finishes, but he could not have looked less like 'as advertised' over his last two bouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 12, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2018 you have boring fights though then you have Ngannou/Lewis, there was little to excuse there, it was a fucking disaster, straight up. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Also, being a boring fighter doesn't necessarily exclude you from fitting the mould of what the UFC wants from a fighter: You can be boring and elite or you can, in theory, be boring and popular. Ngannou was in a tricky place because over 2 fights he's lost all his allure to the UFC. He can get it back, you're rarely buried for good. But, for the minute, he's compromised in terms of his value to the brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 12, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2018 How many boring fights has Ngannou had, though? Surely he's generated enough entertainment and therefore a bit of goodwill that he could be excused this one blip, and not immediately be subjected to a verbal savaging by White? I know it was a long time ago, but just imagine if White had slagged off Shamrock or Severn for their boring fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 12, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2018 I think part of the issue, dear Carbomb, is what Egg typed above. It wasn't just a boring fight, it was maybe the worst scrap in UFC history. They promoted a HW bombfest and we got two big dudes barely doing a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourtyTwo Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I'm relatively new to UFC, having only started to watch after DC v Jones last year, and then only sporadically for a few months, so didn't really know a lot about Lewis or Ngannou going in.  I did see Miocic maul Ngannou though, but had my expectations raised on the fight by both the comments on here and a work colleague who was saying it was going to be just a bomb-fest. To say I was shocked at what it turned into was a bit of an understatement - I've seen bad fights before, and even fairly bad cards from top to bottom, but nothing I watched in the past year came close to that - I kept expecting it to explode into life during the first round, and was just lost for words at what it turned into. On the basis of that fight, I have no interest in watching either of them again. If anything, the only interest comes from the position of "it can't be that bad again, can it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 12, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2018 Colonel Bollocks, and @FourtyTwo - I get that, and this isn't to excuse their performance. But we do know, from previous matches, that there was a reasonable expectation that they'd have an exciting fight because their previous fights were good, right? I get the criticism, especially as this match suggests maybe Ngannou's gone to shit, and Lewis has learned to be tactical at the expense of entertainment, but howay: surely we all know better than to base opinions on one fight, especially when it's a fighter who's fought before? Put it this way: did anyone on here think Wonderboy or Tyron Woodley had immediately become shit and therefore incapable of having an exciting fight ever again after their second fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Colonel Bollocks, and @FourtyTwo - I get that, and this isn't to excuse their performance. But we do know, from previous matches, that there was a reasonable expectation that they'd have an exciting fight because their previous fights were good, right? I get the criticism, especially as this match suggests maybe Ngannou's gone to shit, and Lewis has learned to be tactical at the expense of entertainment, but howay: surely we all know better than to base opinions on one fight, especially when it's a fighter who's fought before? Put it this way: did anyone on here think Wonderboy or Tyron Woodley had immediately become shit and therefore incapable of having an exciting fight ever again after their second fight? But that's not the point, is it? Neither Wonderboy or Woodley left their fights completely bereft of hooks into one of the two central planks of the UFC brand's market positioning. They were both still considered elite and/or popular. It's not about being exciting. That's borderline irrelevant. It's the easiest way into the UFC's good books, sure, but it's not a pre-requisite. The UFC is the populist home of elite fighters. If you're popular and elite, congratulations, you're a golden goose. If you're popular or elite, good work, you'll be in the UFC's good graces. If you're neither, unlucky, you're on your own. After Stipe, Ngannou was roundly exposed as not being at an 'elite' level. He looked every inch the one trick pony some people were worried about him being. But that's fine, because he had good will because of his knockouts. Once he became gun shy, and the fans started booing... that's a tough place to be. At that point the UFC had to get out in front and find an angle that made it clear to the vast majority of fans (who only engage with the UFC for a brief window around a big event) that what they just saw was in no way reflective of the UFC brand and that if they pay for PPV next time, that won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 12, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said: But that's not the point, is it? Neither Wonderboy or Woodley left their fights completely bereft of hooks into one of the two central planks of the UFC brand's market positioning. They were both still considered elite and/or popular. It's not about being exciting. That's borderline irrelevant. It's the easiest way into the UFC's good books, sure, but it's not a pre-requisite. The UFC is the populist home of elite fighters. If you're popular and elite, congratulations, you're a golden goose. If you're popular or elite, good work, you'll be in the UFC's good graces. If you're neither, unlucky, you're on your own. After Stipe, Ngannou was roundly exposed as not being at an 'elite' level. He looked every inch the one trick pony some people were worried about him being. But that's fine, because he had good will because of his knockouts. Once he became gun shy, and the fans started booing... that's a tough place to be. At that point the UFC had to get out in front and find an angle that made it clear to the vast majority of fans (who only engage with the UFC for a brief window around a big event) that what they just saw was in no way reflective of the UFC brand and that if they pay for PPV next time, that won't happen. I get what you're saying - not all good matches have to be exciting - but the stuff White said wasn't helpful to either the fighter or the brand. And given the history of his outbursts and what we know of his character, I really, really doubt he was saying any of this with the UFC brand in mind. I'm not saying he should've boosted Ngannou; the guy hadn't earned that. But he could've done some damage control that didn't hurt  At the very least, it wouldn't have harmed him or the company just to say: "I don't know what happened to him there, guys - looks like he had a really bad night, which has shocked me, because we've all seen what a killer he's been until now. I hope we see that killer back again soon. I'm going to have a word with him and his coaches. For now, I'd just like to apologise to our fans who paid to see that match, and remind them we've got the prospect of a DC vs. Lesnar match coming up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I think Dana is potentially the greatest brand marketeer in the history of fight sports. I don't think he says a single thing that doesn't have the UFC's brand integrity in mind. He's a bull in a China shop, sure, and he's a ruthless to the point of parody but he's fucking spectacular at what he does. He took the sting out of combat sports politics by creating a brand superstructure. The only thing left that lands a glove on his model is last minute dropouts. That's it. Everything else is mitigated against by his creation. Even their brand first event-driven promotional strategy, which everyone gets their knickers in a twist about, is a way of insulating the brand to the perils of someone getting injured/arrested/getting slept by someone they shouldn't. Everyone talks about the UFC being terrible at promoting fighters. It's nonsense, really. They really only invest in promoting fighters where there's a reasonable expectation of ROI, which is perfectly logical. Promotion is fucking expensive. The reason the brand-first strategy exists is so that they don't make the mistake they did with Ronda: that one time they did step outside their model and got bit on the fucking dick because of it. They spent millions on a character driven ad campaign and OOH/ATL marketing for Ronda/Holly, where the UFC brand was subservient to the Ronda 'brand', and she got her head stoved in and their earning potential bottomed out. No one is bigger or better than the brand. That's sports marketing 101. Try making an ad campaign for El Clasico just featuring Ronaldo or Messi. Their lawyers will eat your head. For that matter, try pulling an MLB campaign in Japan together using 90% Yu Darvish materials. The MLB be very unhappy. And so will the Cubs. Trust me. I know.  *EDIT* That rambled a bit. But the point, in general, is that if you're 'brand first', you have to make individuals a) subservient to the brand, and b) they must align with where you've positioned yourself in the market. It's dangerous, if not terminal, to have characters who are either too big, or contradict your reason for existing (and your reason to expect your customers money) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Sorry, Daz. Â What are ROI OOH and ATL in this context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Sorry, that was exceedingly wanky of me. Return On Investment, Out of Home and Above The Line. I won't do that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Cheers, I'll employ a bit more blue sky thinking and pick off the low hanging fruit when we touch base next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 12, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2018 I knew ROI, didn't know the other two, so thanks for that. I never said that the UFC were terrible at promoting fighters. Nobody in their right minds could ever claim that. I was pointing out instances of where Dana White's petulance fucks over fighters instead of helping them. Even without the Ngannou example, there are still plenty of occasions where he's clearly just said things out of pique. Â All I'm trying to say is: Dana White is a roaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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