UFC 226: Miocic vs Cormier

[wandshogun09]

Probably wouldn't make any more money, no. Now he's no longer the champion, he'd probably make the same money fighting Dada 5000 as he would Cain Velasquez. Which sounds barmy, doesn't it? 

The appeal for him to fight a Cain or Jones though, even without the PPV points, would obviously be a legacy thing and also that they're fights that would fast-track him back to where he wants to be. One win over a name like that would most likely get him an instant title shot. Plus he'd probably get some backstage money if the show did well. 

[ColinBollocks]

Maybe, but if Stipe's got his massive business hat on then surely you want the bigger fights when you're guaranteed bigger financial rewards - when he gets the belt. I'd get a Blaydes fight out of the way and save that Jones nut for when I've got my PPV points. Obviously this is all a bit silly and far fetched, mainly because Stipe seems the type to take on whoever UFC tell him is next.

Thinking about it. The title will probably be vacant in March, so wouldn't it be boss if they did Stipe v Cain for the vacant title, with the tag on of 'who's the GOAT?'.

Brock can fight Jones.

[OzExile]

This ppv did under 400k buys.  Fucking hell.  Even with the loss of Max vs T-City - it's going to be one of the top three cards of the year in terms of depth.  Plus - July 4 IFW, MSG in November and Vegas NYE are their big three - like the Rumble, Mania and Summerslam in the WWE. 

If Conor promoted his own show with himself on it - it could possibly draw bigger than the UFC's big three combined.  

[David]

9 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

The thing with Stipe is he's already beat nearly every top fighter in the division already. And decisively. It limits the options for matchmaking for sure. Brock Lesnar would be not only a money fight but it's a fresh fight as well. 

I'm not sure that Stipe's likely to get the winner of DC vs Brock though. He deserves another crack IMO just based on his reign but, as unreliable and cunty as he is, Jon Jones vs either Brock or a third fight with DC are much bigger fights for the UFC to make. If Jones is available by the time DC vs Brock is settled, I'd be amazed if they go any other direction. 

Stipe might have to take another fight in the meantime. He could wait it out but at 35 I'm not sure he wants to be doing that. He seems the type who will want back in there after this loss. 

Thing is, from what I've read Stipe made $750,000 from this fight alone, which is a fair chunk of cash for him. He isn't living the high life, he's living comfortable, but he isn't pissing cash away.

If he was smart he could, and would take the time off and let the dust settle on the circus that's started.

He's taken a hard shot to the dome, and could probably do worse than take a year or so off, especially with a new kid on the way. Let this shit all play out and see what's waiting for him at the end.

8 hours ago, jimufctna24 said:

I think the UFC will match Miocic up with either Blaydes or Volkov. 

If he takes either of those on anywhere close to his pre-championship run money then he's a fool. He won't do that though.

Not if his recent actions are anything to go by.

8 hours ago, ColinBollocks said:

They're 'No Draws' for sure, but if Stipe doesn't want to sit out then he's probably got no option but to take on one of them. It's not like Stipe is the type to really give a care about that sort of thing anyway. If Dana told Stipe if he beats one of those two he's definitely getting another title shot after, then I'm sure he'll be all over it.

Blaydes and Volkov are probably only another good year away from title shots. It's not like Stipe has proven himself to be anything resembling a draw anyway, so Dana may see Stipe v one of those two as a nice little heater, should they best Stipe and they do the work in the coming year. Again, the only upside for Stipe is that he's a win away from his title - after all both men are top 3 HWs. The division is at least held up until the end of the year anyway.

There's one thing Stipe gives a shit about, and it's getting paid.

There seems to be this misconception that he's an "I'll fight anyone, anytime, no problem" kind of guy, which couldn't be further from the truth. 

The dude was in a full-blown contract dispute with the UFC during his title run over what he was getting paid, so there's next to no chance that he gets a call to face Blaydes or Volkov on piss-poor money and accepts it, title shot promised with a win or not.

His pay rate before his title run was $65,000 to show, $65,000 win bonus. 

Did you watch any of the pre-fight build to the Cormier fight? DC was banging on about legacy and being the greatest of all time, and all Miocic was saying was that it was "another day at the office," and that "he was there to do his job."

He gives not a single fuck about legacy, titles or any of that nonsense. He cares about his bank account growing fatter each time he steps in the cage, and rightfully so.

He knows that none of that legacy shit matters, except to some fans of a niche sport and the fighters themselves. He's in it to make the most cash he can, then get to fuck.

8 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

It wouldn't be my choice but I suppose they could always do Stipe vs Derrick Lewis as well. 

A lot of this depends on Stipe. Of course he wants to make the most money possible but coming off this loss, he might just want to get back in there and win first and foremost. Kind of like Frankie Edgar coming back after the Ortega KO and taking the Swanson rematch. I can see Stipe doing something similar.

Again, same thing. Stipe is nothing like Edgar. He doesn't give a fuck about "getting a win," or "bouncing back." He cares about being paid to do what he does.

I honestly get the feeling that if he was told tomorrow that he could never fight again he'd be like "okay, cool" and be quite happy with the not inconsiderable amount of money he's made so far and just go back to being a fireman in Ohio and forget about ever being a UFC fighter.

He strikes me as a family guy, who wants to make his and their lives as comfortable as possible. 

By my reckoning he's banked around $2.85 million from the fight against Werdum until this fight at the weekend, so he's not wanting for cash. The guy lives a regular life in Ohio, he's not going broke any time soon.

If the UFC want him to step in and fight, they'll need to pay him well I'd guess. And if they don't want to pay him? I don't think he'd have any qualms sitting out for as long as it takes.

2 hours ago, OzExile said:

This ppv did under 400k buys.  Fucking hell.  Even with the loss of Max vs T-City - it's going to be one of the top three cards of the year in terms of depth.  Plus - July 4 IFW, MSG in November and Vegas NYE are their big three - like the Rumble, Mania and Summerslam in the WWE. 

If Conor promoted his own show with himself on it - it could possibly draw bigger than the UFC's big three combined.  

I think the sport has now plateaued. The days of huge PPV buys outwith a couple of freak attractions are done, and the new owners know that.

They probably feel that they've been sold a rotten apple by the Fertitta's, and they'd be right in thinking that. Those two dudes got out at the right time.

Unfortunately, it's the fans who'll pay the price, because I honestly think this new ownership group would happily destroy the sport and the company if that's what it takes to get their cash back, which is what they're doing.

I predict that when these guys finally get their money and sell up (which they will as soon as they claw back most of their losses) we're gonna be left with a "sport" that's been set back about 15 years by all of their shit.

The fans today don't give a fuck. That's evident in the fact that no one is buying anymore. Even I don't care now. It's a shit show. Like a rubbish car boot sale in Bognor Regis, I find myself wading through a lot of shit to find the odd decent nugget worth my attention these days.

And if it's raining, I won't even bother showing up at all.

[weevil]

5 hours ago, OzExile said:

This ppv did under 400k buys.  Fucking hell.  Even with the loss of Max vs T-City - it's going to be one of the top three cards of the year in terms of depth.  Plus - July 4 IFW, MSG in November and Vegas NYE are their big three - like the Rumble, Mania and Summerslam in the WWE. 

If Conor promoted his own show with himself on it - it could possibly draw bigger than the UFC's big three combined.  

What's the source on this? There is a trend recently of buyrates being reported really early, really low, and really wrong. I'd be shocked if any number out this early doesn't turn out to be bullshit.

[Egg Shen]

fuck me, Dave's happy.

.

 

 

[Egg Shen]

2 hours ago, David said:

 

The dude was in a full-blown contract dispute with the UFC during his title run over what he was getting paid, so there's next to no chance that he gets a call to face Blaydes or Volkov on piss-poor money and accepts it, title shot promised with a win or not.

His pay rate before his title run was $65,000 to show, $65,000 win bonus. 

 

Surely he'll take a drop in money but has protected himself enough where he wont drop back to what he was on previously to signing his new contract.

If Miocic gets the call to fight a Curtis Blaydes (which is a fight id be avoiding from a match-up standpoint) surely he'll have to fight him for the money thats already agreed in his contract?

[ColinBollocks]

Exactly. Doesn't matter who he faces next, so long as he gets a title shot soon.

Also, this is from a Stipe interview:

“I really don’t care who I fight,” Miocic said. “They haven’t really asked me, but I don’t care who it is – if it’s Cain, Werdum or JDS. I think it’s going to be a great fight, and I match up well with all three of them, so whoever they put in front of me (is fine).

“Listen, I’m going to keep that belt for a long time, so it doesn’t matter who it is. I’m going to win.”

As discussed, Stipe has always been a "I'll fight whoever" type of guy, so I'm sure all he really cares about is how it lines him up for the belt. Particularly if it makes no difference to his pay.

[David]

15 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Surely he'll take a drop in money but has protected himself enough where he wont drop back to what he was on previously to signing his new contract.

If Miocic gets the call to fight a Curtis Blaydes (which is a fight id be avoiding from a match-up standpoint) surely he'll have to fight him for the money thats already agreed in his contract?

Or he'll simply sit out and not fight anyone. I honestly don't think the guy seems as though he'd be all that fussed if he never fought again if the money wasn't right.

By the same token, if the UFC put a figure in front of him that works I have no doubt he'd happily fight a no-name on the opening fight of the FightPass prelims.

Unless they agreed a new deal with him since he won the title, his contract was for $65,000 show money, and $65,000 win bonus. I can't see him entertaining that.

If that's what he's offered, or even a slight increase on it, he's probably better off trying to figure a way out of the company and going elsewhere. He'd make a lot more than that with one of the 2nd tier companies and his own sponsorship deals.

On a related note, did anyone read the article in the Guardian about the shenanigans at the weekend?

Quote

 

Curtis “Razor” Blaydes cut loose after UFC 226’s main event on Saturday night. He had just watched WWE star Brock Lesnar strut into the octagon for the first time in two years, and engage in a shoving match with UFC heavyweight champion Daniel Cormier.

“Tired of all the politics,” Blaydes tweeted. “Like is it even still about fighting? First CM Punk now Brock Lesnar. I’ll just continue to grow as a martial artist and become more dangerous and I refuse to resort to that WWE bs fake arguing just to draw in lame ass casual fans.”

Lesnar’s intervention suggested to many observers that marketability is now as important as fighting ability in UFC. Responding to Blaydes and other mixed martial artists who don’t appreciate melding real fighting with pro-wrestling antics, Cormier offered a simple and telling retort: “Stay broke.”

Fully embracing UFC’s “entertainment era” has meant choosing between manufacturing drama, the seemingly easier option, or playing up the real thing, which may not always exist.

Indeed, Lesnar’s introduction on Saturday quickly eroded UFC 226 from a sporting triumph to a debased spectacle. Miocic didn’t have a chance to exit the cage before Lesnar grabbed a microphone and called him a “piece of shit.”

That said, you can’t argue with Lesnar’s ability to generate interest. He has long been in the business of luring in audiences with caustic language, and his ability to engage folks outside the mixed martial arts world is the reason he headlined three UFC pay-per-views, each of which attracted more than one million buys.

Over the last decade the UFC created fights that fans didn’t know they wanted until they were told otherwise. And by leaning on compelling personalities like Lesnar, Conor McGregor, Ronda Rousey and Georges St-Pierre the promotion generated significant pay-per-view revenue.

Times change, of course. Rousey is gone to the WWE. St-Pierre is all but retired. McGregor is expected to fight again this year, though it’s hard to say how often he will appear in the octagon.

This core group largely built themselves and were aided by the UFC media machine. It’s never easy to cultivate and sell big-time fighters to the public. The biggest challenge facing the UFC in recent years has revolved around finding new stars.

Less than a year ago, for example, UFC president Dana White touted Cameroonian heavyweight Francis Ngannou as the future, a potential global star, the heaviest hitter in a constellation of heavy hitters. On Saturday night, less than a year removed from a title challenge defeat to Miocic, White berated Ngannou and his apparently giant ego following a terrible three-round staring contest with another listing heavyweight contender, Derek Lewis.

That’s why it means nothing that Lesnar is 40-year-old and has not officially won a UFC fight since 2010, which is when he relinquished the promotion’s heavyweight title to Cain Velasquez. Or that he is caught up in an ongoing doping controversy following a failure in his last bout two years ago at UFC 200 (which also sold more than a million pay-per-views).

Blaydes (10-1, 1 no contest) is currently taking the less rewarding workmanlike trek to fame and fortune. He plastered veteran Alistair Overeem with a volley of elbows last month, placing him atop a very short list of the heavyweight division’s chief contenders.

That’s why Blaydes, a 27-year-old former junior college champion wrestler, reacted so strongly when Cormier used UFC 226 to call out Lesnar, who was noticeably seated cage-side.

In Blaydes’s mind it should have been him, but few know the man and the 39-year-old Cormier appears uninterested in giving some dangerous kid a shot. “I’m at a point now where it’s very difficult to fight a Curtis Blaydes,” said Cormier, who claims he will retire from MMA by the time he turns 40 in March.

By any sporting measure Lesnar should not have been granted a title opportunity. Yet in White’s estimation a contest between Lesnar and Cormier is “a fight people want to see,” which is the most basic and yet the most meaningful measuring stick inside the company. At this stage, UFC fans are conditioned to root for any fight that makes the most money for the company.

“I’m fighting Brock Lesnar,” Cormier said on Saturday. “I’m getting paid. I want to fight fights that make sense.” For a select group of UFC fighters big-money bouts can be a reality. The rest of them are made to wait and tweet.

 

 

[David]

3 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

Exactly. Doesn't matter who he faces next, so long as he gets a title shot soon.

Also, this is from a Stipe interview:

“I really don’t care who I fight,” Miocic said. “They haven’t really asked me, but I don’t care who it is – if it’s Cain, Werdum or JDS. I think it’s going to be a great fight, and I match up well with all three of them, so whoever they put in front of me (is fine).

“Listen, I’m going to keep that belt for a long time, so it doesn’t matter who it is. I’m going to win.”

As discussed, Stipe has always been a "I'll fight whoever" type of guy, so I'm sure all he really cares about is how it lines him up for the belt. Particularly if it makes no difference to his pay.

Apologies for the double quote.

That statement was made by Stipe when he was champion. He was making $600,000 per fight base rate. At that money he'd fight anyone, of course he would.

If the UFC come to him and ask him to fight for close to what he made pre-title (they'd be mad to even waste the money on the phone call to do that in my opinion,) then I'd be very surprised if he doesn't tell them to fuck off.

He's a "I'll fight whoever" as long as the pay is right. He's all about the money. He doesn't care about legacy, bouncing back, being the greatest or any of that jazz. He's already made noises about the money he was getting as champion, so how will he react to getting a fraction of that?

Maybe the company will surprise the shit out of us and pay him what he believes he's worth? Time will tell I guess.

[ColinBollocks]

We simply don't know how that will play out. Again, if you're Stipe your options are you sit out and wait for the title to potentially vacate, or you take a fight in the next few months to line yourself up for a title shot (and good money). Post-fight Stipe said his focus right now is his baby, which is the move.

IIRC, Stipe did agree to a new deal last year, or they were very very close to a new one. He told Helwani on the MMA Hour that while it's still below what he wants, it's a decent size bump.

According to MMA Junkie, Stipe's show money was a flat $750,000 for this. Again, I have not a clue how that reduces now he doesn't have a belt other than he doesn't get PPV points, but he was getting a flat $600k prior to the DC fight.

Lewis gets $260,000 (including $130,000 win bonus) for his fights, by comparison.

 

Quote

He's a "I'll fight whoever" as long as the pay is right. He's all about the money. He doesn't care about legacy, bouncing back, being the greatest or any of that jazz. He's already made noises about the money he was getting as champion, so how will he react to getting a fraction of that?

I think they're both factors for him. After all, unless he just lies, he is quite keen to press that all he cares about is keeping his belt and being the best. He's not doing a Lewis, where he is quite blunt in that he just wants a pay cheque and couldn't give a care about the belt.

Also, the thing with Stipe is he's not a draw. It's why the UFC weren't bending over backwards for him. If he was doing business he'd have got his bump sooner. Sadly, just being really great isn't enough. If he sits out, it's not really making a massive dent in UFC business. The leverage any fighter has over the UFC is that they make them big money or they are a champion, Stipe has none of that now.

[David]

32 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

We simply don't know how that will play out. Again, if you're Stipe your options are you sit out and wait for the title to potentially vacate, or you take a fight in the next few months to line yourself up for a title shot (and good money). Post-fight Stipe said his focus right now is his baby, which is the move.

I get the feeling that he's not going to fight unless the money's right. He probably also knows that with the current climate within the UFC, a win over someone in his next fight guarantees nothing. As has been mentioned, if Jon Jones rolls into town and declares a move to heavyweight and a desire to face the winner of DC/Lesnar, then Stipe ain't getting that title fight next.

If he's operating on the belief that a win over a Blaydes or Volkov will get him another shot and a $600,000 payday then he's an idiot, as that's far from being the case.

32 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

IIRC, Stipe did agree to a new deal last year, or they were very very close to a new one. He told Helwani on the MMA Hour that while it's still below what he wants, it's a decent size bump.

If that's the case then that changes everything, obviously. 

32 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

According to MMA Junkie, Stipe's show money was a flat $750,000 for this. Again, I have not a clue how that reduces now he doesn't have a belt other than he doesn't get PPV points, but he was getting a flat $600k prior to the DC fight.

Lewis gets $260,000 (including $130,000 win bonus) for his fights, by comparison.

The money he got for the DC fight was a separate negotiation according to DC, but I think his $600,000 pay as champion is the standard that a UFC champion gets, isn't it? I'm sure Woodley got the same pay bump when he won the strap.

Not sure what his new deal, if there is one, will see him get post-championship run.

32 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

Also, the thing with Stipe is he's not a draw. It's why the UFC weren't bending over backwards for him. If he was doing business he'd have got his bump sooner. Sadly, just being really great isn't enough. If he sits out, it's not really making a massive dent in UFC business. The leverage any fighter has over the UFC is that they make them big money or they are a champion, Stipe has none of that now.

Is anyone aside from Conor and Lesnar really a draw today? 

I think the UFC need to re-evaluate what they term as a "successful" PPV, if they haven't already. The days of shows doing 750,000 and above on a regular basis are gone save for a few attractions.

Miocic is no different from 99% of the fighters on the roster today, but does that mean all of those fighters should be paid shit money because they "don't draw?"

[Egg Shen]

41 minutes ago, David said:

 

If he's operating on the belief that a win over a Blaydes or Volkov will get him another shot and a $600,000 payday then he's an idiot, as that's far from being the case.

 

but wouldnt the contract hes currently under already sort of dictate how much hes going to make going forward? it aint like its been tore up and hes starting from scratch now hes lost.

There may be no guaranteed title shot with a win over Blaydes/Volkov but theres also chance he gets fuck all if he sits out and refuses to fight any of them because the UFC might be happy to carry on without him.

[David]

40 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

but wouldnt the contract hes currently under already sort of dictate how much hes going to make going forward? it aint like its been tore up and hes starting from scratch now hes lost.

There may be no guaranteed title shot with a win over Blaydes/Volkov but theres also chance he gets fuck all if he sits out and refuses to fight any of them because the UFC might be happy to carry on without him.

Colin mentioned that he may have signed a new contract, so everything could be hunky dory, I'm just pointing out the fact that he seemed more than happy to sit out the last time he raised issues with his pay, which was during his title run.

This doesn't seem like a man who's afraid of being lost in the shuffle or having the UFC unhappy with him.

He's going in there and getting punched in the head (and poked in the eye) for a living, and he believes he deserves to get paid, regardless of what he "draws." 

How he's received by the fans and the public in general is primarily the domain of his promoters. The key is in the title, isn't it? Promoter. People who are supposed to be good at promotion.

I don't buy into this shit that it's on the fighters to promote themselves entirely. The fighters have more than enough to contend with by training, eating correctly, staying healthy, and trying to make sure they make weight.

The vast majority of them aren't media-savvy television personalities. they're guys and girls who are adept at hitting people and winning fights.

Sure, the odd "lightning in a bottle" scenario will happen now & then, but it seems to me that the UFC are simply sitting back and telling these guys to "get themselves over," while they reap all the rewards.

Surely there's a well-paid team of promotional experts who work within the company who's sole job is to take these fighters who are good at what they do, and think of ways to make them look top dollar and appealing to the fans?

They put together a plan to make it happen, and the fighter does whatever promotional duties are needed, right? That's how it works in every other fucking industry out there.

In fact, when you think about it, Dana is actually an anti-promoter. 

Case in point, this past weekend when asked about Ngannou. Even the most amateur promoter in any fight sport would address that shambles of a fight by saying something like "I'm not sure about Ngannou, he had an off-night. We've all seen what he can do though, and you know he'll be chomping at the bit to get back in there and start knocking people out."

But no, he gets asked about someone who's supposedly a future star, an African knock out artist with a great look and KO power and says -  

Quote

 

"I can tell you that his ego absolutely did run away with him. The minute that that happens to you in the fight game, you see what happens. You start to fall apart.”

”I had some personal encounters with him, as did other people in the organization, and this guy’s ego was just so out of control,” White continued. “It’s like, before the Stipe fight, he took off and went to France. Didn’t even really train for that fight. And you see the results. Well, he came back and did train [this time], but ego is what hurt Francis Ngannou.”

 

What even the worst promoter in the fucking world wouldn't do is destroy the guy in public. With a "promoter" like that supposedly working for you what chance have you got?

Then they tell the fighters that they don't deserve to get paid because they're not over with the fans? It's some fucking racket they have going on, honestly 😂

[ColinBollocks]

 

2 hours ago, David said:

Miocic is no different from 99% of the fighters on the roster today, but does that mean all of those fighters should be paid shit money because they "don't draw?"

From our POV, of course not, but we don't matter because that's not how the UFC go about their business, particularly with the new owners. At least Uncle Frank was canny enough to keep fighters sweet with backstage bonuses, but that's apparently been done away with now the new owners are about and looking to cut costs where they can. I'm sure one of the more appealing aspects of the business to the new owners was that apparently a tiny share of the revenue actually goes into the fighters pocket - you can bet the new telly deal isn't bumping wages up.

Fans and fighters need to get behind Bellator, basically. If UFC have legit competition it's better for everyone.