Keith Houchen Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 One of the main reasons people are quick to defend someone's actions and behaviours is because they themselves exhibit the same actions and behaviours. Â This in turn means they have to question the way they conduct themselves and possibly admit that they too behave in a criminal and abusive manner. And drop the Devils advocate bullshit. Â When you "Play" DA, you're reinforcing the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members I Bent My Wookie Posted January 27, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2018 Trying to make a point of being 13 and in a dangerous environment is bullshit for me. At 13 I was being dumped on my head three times a week playing rugby at a high level and nobody thought any different of it because it was a passion I had and I wanted to be part of it. Being 13 makes no difference to being 30 when it comes to loving what you do. What does make a difference is being a fucking scumbag with someone not emotionally developed enough and the amount of sheer shit that has come out of BritWres. From people I had so much respect for too. Its actually fucking gutting that a business I had so much love for and used as an outlet for when I was at my lowest ebb has been shown to be even worse than we've ever joked about. There's more to come too, I'm so sure of it. There's people I know will be brought up by the sheer fact at 15/16 and looking to get in the business were fucking scum to me, inviting me to stay at their house if I wanted to come to a show and being heavily inappropriate with someone of that age. I know there's a lot of good people in this industry especially in the UK, some who have really helped me get better but yeah this is utter shit and so sad to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWOLeN Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Are Wrestling schools regulated in the sense, that trainers and promoters, have a valid "certificate of good conduct"? What if an underage person gets seriously injured during a wrestling match, will the promoter be insured? Do parents need to legally sign of on their underage kids to participate in a wrestling match? We often hear about wrestlers "stiffing" and "shooting" during matches unnoticed to fans.. How is the pro wrestling business classified as a "safe working environments" for kids to participate in? As a father of two young kids, I am truly interested in these answers.  Edited January 27, 2018 by LWOLeN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MungoChutney Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I can only speak for one promotion with absolute certainty. I won't name them but I know the answer to your first 3 questions there is yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members I Bent My Wookie Posted January 27, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2018 I'm fairly sure with a lot of schools these days to be trained under 16 you need parental acceptance knowing the risks involved, as with many marital arts and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted January 27, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, LWOLeN said: We often hear about wrestlers "stiffing" and "shooting" during matches unnoticed to fans.. How is the pro wrestling business classified as a "safe working environments" for kids to participate in?  Stiffing and shooting is a cunt move on an adult let alone a child. Wrestling is a work and kayfebe is dead, it's place has long gone out of any benefit beyond ego stroking or metaphorical dick waving. Wrestling has some great people and some cunts, the problem is people accept the behaviour of cunts as 'part of the business'. Shit like shooting on someone because you've a fragile ego, getting other peoples shows cancelled or 'paying' people in sandwiches is shit that shouldn't fly but does because 'its wrestling'. I was at a show where someone sliced his hand open building the cage and I was seemingly the only person with any sort of first aid kit or basic knowledge. I sliced my wrist open once in an accident and cleaned it with a bottle of water, napkins and an elastic band. It's accepted as 'the nature of the beast'. It shouldn't be like that. But in environments like that, and in a business where the good who do vet people, do have insurance and crb checks and the bad who don't is so hard to notice for many, it's all to easy an environment for some to take advantage or others to accept seeing that as part of the norm. There was talk of rugby earlier, I would trust a rugby club to have the paperwork and checks in place. I would expect them to have first aid training and checks to make sure people are as safe as possible to work with kids. I would expect a young girl to train or play there without getting horrible messages from the coach or talked into something for a spot on the pitch. I would expect all the same from a wrestling promoter or trainer. The problem is many other people do too and while some deliver some don't and wrestling lives in its own bubble where people seemingly look to exclude the expectations we place on non wrestling things.   Edited January 27, 2018 by Tommy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 27, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) . Edited January 27, 2018 by tiger_rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 27, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2018 "Could the prosecution please set out their case?" "We don't have any evidence your honour but someone started a thread on the UKFF if you want to read it?" "Guilty. You will go to prison for 5 years" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Excellent post, Tommy!, bang on. Â I know wrestling isn't a sport per se but here is the wonderful John Amaechi talking about abuse in sport https://twitter.com/cnnsport/status/957191458833940480 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 27, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) I'm not comfortable with anyone under the age of 16 starting wrestling training, though that's just a personal opinion - I'd struggle to make a distinction between wrestling and other contact sports or martial arts, and I don't have a problem with kids doing karate, or whatnot, so it's not going to be my hill to die on. What's more important - regardless of age, because while it might be noncery that's more likely to get the headlines and draw people's ire, we can't overlook that there's a lot of adults getting abused and exploited here too - is that people ensure that wrestling schools are kept as reputable, and as transparent as possible, to try and prevent this happening again. I don't know how feasible it would be, but a few weeks back I posited the idea of someone trying to create and maintain a database of UK wrestling schools, making note of various factors - including whether or not they ensured that trainers had valid DBS checks, and so on. Because wrestling won't ever have a reputable governing body ensuring everything's on the up-and-up, it will only ever police itself and look after its own - it's up to people within the industry to ensure that those doing the policing aren't just covering up and protecting the boys, and are genuinely looking out for people's best interests. And that's a big ask.   Tommy's right - to go into wrestling training, or any sports training, you know that you're risking getting hurt. But you shouldn't also be going in knowing that there's a real risk of being abused, harassed, or worse - anyone in a training position has a duty of care, and we should know they're trustworthy, and not going to abuse that position. What's important is that measures need to be in place to prevent that abuse (DBS checks, the proper paperwork and so on) and, should the worst happen, there need to be clear procedures in place to ensure it doesn't happen again. Edited January 27, 2018 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators neil Posted January 27, 2018 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2018 FYI - this is a thread to discuss what's been made public via Twitter, news outlets, and other places like podcasts. So no posting of any hearsay bullshit rumours - that includes any text messages you may have received etc. Please use report as needed. Thanks for keeping this thread on track thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 minute ago, neil said: Thanks for keeping this thread on track thus far. Wait until someone starts posting what happens at the Paido inductions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 27, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2018 This entire discussion of potential physical injury is completely and utterly irrelevant, and derailing the main point of this thread. If a young person takes part in a dangerous physical activity, with the parent's permission or not, it's expected there is potential for injury. It isn't expected said child will be sexually harassed or assaulted. That's it. Plus nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators neil Posted January 27, 2018 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Wait until someone starts posting what happens at the Paido inductions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 hours ago, LWOLeN said: Yes I am. It doesn't pay to be the Devil's Advocate. I'll take it. I'm glad this got some discussion going.  I don’t think it’s so much of a discussion as it is serval people taking it in turns to explain why you are wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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