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UFC 220: Miocic vs Ngannou


wandshogun09

Who wins and how?   

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I have to disagree with you Wand. I think Cormier has a massive shot in beating Stipe. 

His height is an advantage at heavyweight as he can basically get down easier in order to scoop his opponent up to get them down.

As a grappler as well he's simply on another level to Stipe too.

The main reason I'm for the fight is DC has already said he's retiring at 40, which is basically next year. 

If Jones isn't coming back soon he's got nothing left to prove at LHW. Finishing his career potentially as a dual weight champion would be incredible.

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We saw what happens when hype meets the elite. "Levels" indeed.

It was like watching GSP at HW, in the main event. In truth, Stipe never got the respect he deserved because most were into the Ngannou hype train. As discussed on the other page, some kept asking "how will Stipe handle Ngannou's power?", while completely excluding Stipe's own credentials, like he's not just KO'd most of the best in the division  - a lot of the media seemed to by blinded by the shiny new thing. Early doors, I was very impressed with Stipe's footwork and head movement (again, showing what a good boxer he is), as Ngannou was swinging, but Stipe did a good job avoiding the worst of it. Of course, after that, Stipe just went to town and it was about the easiest decision those judges will probably ever make. IMO, Stipe is now one win away from cementing his place as the GOAT - don't break a rib please, Cain.
Stipe turned the "scariest guy ever" into a bit of a nothing, in the end. Enough said.

I couldn't believe how nervous I was for DC; fully aware a loss here dumps on his legacy as the 2nd best LHW ever and one of the best fighters ever. Plus, despite what dAz types, I rate DC as a good man and I thought his post-show interview showed that.
Anyway, it was weird how both title fights mirrored each other, in some ways. No Time came charging out at DC like Ronda Rousey, but DC is too crafty and durable for that nonsense. You could sense he broke No Time the second he landed that big punch, which soon slowed No Time down and DC just battered him from there on. It was exactly the fight DC needed to put on to solidify his position - outside of Jones and Gust, no one is on his level. I think this fight exposed the depth issue in the division, tbh. Pleased DC got a positive reaction - Jones has really fucked it up.

Count me as another one that isn't arsed about DC v Stipe. It just doesn't do anything for me. I think it's mostly because the three fights I'm more interested in is Stipe v Cain/Werdum and DC v Gust. I also don't think it helps DC only just won one fight after that big Jones loss, as we all know who the real best LHW is, right? Stipe v Jones is the proper champion v champion super fight. Plus, if DC wins he'll probably vacate it right after anyway. Just a 'meh' scenario, for me.

The rest of the card was decent enough. Pleased Kattar got the win because Rogan was doing my head in with his cheerleading of Burgos - Cruz was constantly pointing out it was more even than Rogan was seeing. Villante is indeed a "tank". Font controlled the pace of the fight and overwhelmed Almeida a wee bit.

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Man, Stipe put on a masterclass. He was clearly exhausted and hurt but had a great gameplan. Normally, I don't find fights that conservative to be exciting, but the power of Ngannou was the X-Factor. It was edge of your seat stuff for me, because I'm watching it thinking, "if Stipe gives him the tiniest opportunity, he could be in trouble". I was proven right in the 4th round with the big shot Ngannou landed, even after being tired out, emptying the gas tank and being chipped away at for 15+ minutes, he still had game changing punching power. Congrats to Stipe for setting the UFC Heavyweight Title defense record. I have looked past him many a time, but that needs to stop now. Not too keen on Stipe vs. DC though. Would love to see a healthy Cain Velasquez vs. Stipe Miocic, it could be a truly classic heavyweight fight.

I bet against DC because he looked like he was dying with the weight cut, and he's creeping close to his 40s. Didn't seem to mean a damn thing, Cormier took the best shots Oezdemir had to offer and responded by taking it into his world and finishing in short order. At this point, I don't think the Jon Jones shadow exists anymore, or at least, it's very faint. When the only person to beat you pisses hot, and you're that dominant over everyone else, you deserve to be recognised as one of the GOATs of 205.

That finishing sequence with Cattar and Burgos was wild. I wasn't familiar with them- I watch every show so I've definitely seen them fight, but the schedule and roster is so loaded that they hadn't made an impression on me. This fight changed that. Both guys looked good, and just when Burgos was starting to shine, Kattar shut the lights out.

Don't know what the judge was smoking in Villante vs. Barroso. Gian had that locked down, split decision, my arse.

Rob Font was crazy impressive. The type of win and statement that really puts a fighter on the map. I really hope Almeida can rebound though, I like him a lot and still think he has plenty of upside.

On the prelims, the stand out was Alhassan vs. Homasi. Jesus, what a KO. Scary stuff. After the win, Alhassan stood over Homasi, seemingly trash talking or something. Anyone know anything about bad blood between them?

Very good show, in my opinion. In its own unique way, the main event was a war (of attrition). My respect for DC has increased with his win, and the fighters from the Boston region came to play. Don't think there was an outright bad fight of the whole bunch.

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I think there's something to lamby's point about DC at HW. His height and build is theoretically perfect to combine with his elite-level wrestling to give him a rare weapon against the regular heavyweights. I don't know for certain, but I'd venture a guess that most HWs would be a bit flummoxed in dealing with someone that short, and who can get in close to leverage his low centre of gravity with superlative skill, and throw them around more easily than they're used to. He effectively has all the tools to be MMA's equivalent of Taz.

If it was another, average guy with the same build, I wouldn't give it another thought, but this is DC we're talking about. Sure, Jones neutralised him, but Jones is another level to everyone else.

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14 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

Forgot to add, did anyone else notice Stipe grabbing the belt off Dana and giving it to his coach to put it around his waist? I'm guessing Stipe is still livid with the company.

Got the impression he was furious at Rogan in the post fight interview as well. He was pretty short with Rogan.  I was firmly on the Ngannou hype train but some of the stuff Rogan has been coming out with over the last month has been mental. "The most frightening contender in the history of the heavyweight division" because he handed Overeem his umpteenth KO loss? Chill out Joe. No doubting he could've been the next megastar but he had to win this one to prove himself. 

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8 hours ago, Shane O' Mac Version 2 said:

bet against DC because he looked like he was dying with the weight cut, and he's creeping close to his 40s. Didn't seem to mean a damn thing

I think that might be partly a wrestler thing. If you notice, the guys in MMA who've had really impressive longevity and/or stayed at the top of the game longer than most usually come from wrestling backgrounds. Not always, but usually. There's a mental and physical toughness there that's ingrained and built up from an early age and it produces absolute savages. Think of the names that pop up in your memory when you think 'MMA' and 'age defying' or 'longevity'. Randy Couture was the poster boy for this. Dan Henderson as well. Does Hendo hold the record for oldest guy to compete in the UFC? There's Daniel Cormier, as we've said. Yoel Romero is 40. Frankie Edgar's been elite for a decade, which is practically unheard of in the lighter weight classes. With DC you could say there's other factors like he started MMA relatively late. But he's still spent his whole adult life and a big chunk of his adolescence on the wrestling mats and cutting weight. Wrestlers are just a ridiculously hard breed. 

As for Alhassan standing over Homasi after the KO, I don't know if there was any beef, I didn't follow either guy in the build up, but they did have that dodgy stoppage in the first fight. So I'm guessing Homasi had aired his gripes about the stoppage (and rightly so, IMO) and Alhassan didn't like it. I think they hugged when everything settled down, didn't they? So there can't have been any serious heat between them. A case of post-fight adrenaline and emotions running high most likely. 

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Kudos to Miocic, he proved himself to be by far the more complete fighter, but there was more to his victory than that. Make no mistake, he dodged some bullets in that opening round. On another night, he could have easily been caught out. At one point, he looked bewildered by Ngannou's power, and even Rogan noted that the damage was building up. Yet, by the end of round 2, the fight was pretty much done. Had the 2nd round been 20 seconds longer, I think Miocic would have finished Ngannou with that rear naked choke he was about to sink in. 

Ngannou - at least for now - is not the future of the game. There were positives to his performance. He proved that he can give any heavyweight hell for 3-4 minutes. He also demonstrated that he has a decent chin and heart; but he's far from a complete fighter. Miocic showed that while the storm is tough, it can be weathered. For Miocic, that win probably put him in the top 3 heavyweights of all-time. I am not sure if he is top 3 head to head; I would fancy prime versions of Cain, Fedor and Cro Cop against him; but his resume and achievements speak for themselves. He's a superb heavyweight.

I can't say enough about D.C. The Jon Jones stigma will probably always be there, but it shouldn't take away from what a great fighter D.C is. Out of the active light-heavyweights, only perhaps Gusty would give him problems. He's simply in another league to everyone else. As for D.C at heavyweight, I can see it from both sides. I do consider D.C to be a much better fighter now than he was 5 years ago. Whether that would translate to heavyweight is another question. D.C's performances over Big Foot and Barnett were outstanding years back, but I don't have fond memories of his wins over Nelson or Mir (who funnily enough, were arguably inferior to Big Foot and Barnett). I don't think Miocic is that bad a match-up for him, even if it is unlikely to happen. Regardless, I would like to see him give heavyweight a go again, especially considering the issues he had with making weight. If not, then a rematch with Gusty would be nice. 

 

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Stipe dodging bullets is purely down to his brilliant defensive boxing. Ngannou definitely went for it during the first 3 minutes, but how many of those punches legit landed? Definitely a few, but Stipe did about as good a job as you can do rolling with most of them and outright avoiding the rest - I'm not sure if he was ever "bewildered" as he was always the more composed fighter in there. After about 2.30 minutes, Stipe seemed to have completely downloaded all the data he needed to solve the problem, it looked like he saw the punches coming before Ngannou was even thinking about throwing them, given how many he avoided and how brilliant he did countering Ngannou.

Ngannou emptied the tank during the first 3 minutes, but crucially, Stipe avoided most of it and that's a credit to how good a boxer Stipe is. Planned or not, it was mesmerizing watching Stipe "Matrix" his way out of Ngannou's worst, with every punch quickly draining that big frame of Ngannou.

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3 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

Stipe dodging bullets is purely down to his brilliant defensive boxing. Ngannou definitely went for it during the first 3 minutes, but how many of those punches legit landed? Definitely a few, but Stipe did about as good a job as you can do rolling with most of them and outright avoiding the rest - I'm not sure if he was ever "bewildered" as he was always the more composed fighter in there. After about 2.30 minutes, Stipe seemed to have completely downloaded all the data he needed to solve the problem, it looked like he saw the punches coming before Ngannou was even thinking about throwing them, given how many he avoided and how brilliant he did countering Ngannou.

Ngannou did land a big a big right hook near the end of round 1 that rattled Miocic. Yes, Miocic's defensive boxing was very impressive, but some of those punches came within a whisker of clipping him. Miocic did not look comfortable for a brief moment in the first round. I am not criticising Miocic, more underlining how dangerous Ngannou was for a stretch. 

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Fair enough. At the time, I was certain Stipe would get battered going on the way he was, but he was usually too slick, whiskers and all. I just feel that aspect of Stipe's game deserves plaudits; it played a big part in the final outcome.

In fairness, I was shitting myself about the danger of Ngannou in the 5th, when he was reduced to all the movement of a Street Fighter 2 character on the 'Player Select' screen.

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Stipe's easily one of the best heavyweights ever. It's just a fact. When you look at the list of guys he's beaten, consecutively, and the way he's beat them, there's no argument. I genuinely think he's surpassed Cain's achievements. Cain was/is awesome. Cain might even be a better fighter (hopefully we'll get a definitive answer to that sooner rather than later) but based on what they've both actually done, Stipe gets the nod for me. He's rapidly closing the gap for me on Fedor's heavyweight GOAT status as well. Fedor still just about has #1 to me on the strength of his longevity and those wins over the absolute best versions of Cro Cop and Nogueira. But if Stipe keeps going how he's going he's overtaking Fedor, no question. A win over Cain would do it. 

Rogan made me laugh at the end of the PPV when he said something like, and I'm paraphrasing - 'Stipe is maybe the best heavyweight we've ever seen. He might not have beat all the best guys like Cain did...'. It was something along those lines. Who are all these best guys that Cain beat that Miocic hasn't beaten? What is with this refusal to admit that anyone could better Cain's accomplishments at heavyweight? Cain's best wins were the JDS ones. Stipe's also KO'd JDS in a round. Stipe also KO'd Werdum in a round, and Werdum spanked Cain. I mean, MMA maths is bollocks but when comparing the best guys in a division you look at these things. And Stipe has simply beaten a wider variety of opponents, been more active, had answers for a wider variety of styles and solved more puzzles than Cain has. Stipe's beat everyone he can possibly beat. And emphatically. He simply couldn't have done it any better. 

Compare the résumés head to head...

 

Cain's notable wins;

Mauled prime JDS twice 

Crushed pre-decline Bigfoot twice 

Destroyed Brock Lesnar 

Battered an on his arse Travis Browne

Battered Ben Rothwell 

KO'd a fading Big Nog

Decisioned Cheick Kongo

 

Stipe's notable wins;

Dominated Francis Ngannou 

KO'd Overeem in a round 

KO'd Werdum in a round 

KO'd a declining JDS in a round 

KO'd an Andrei Arlovski who was coming off 6 wins in a row, in less than a minute 

Completely decimated Mark Hunt

 

I mean, as awesome as Cain was, there's no argument anymore for me who's had the better run. It's Stipe all day. He's the best heavyweight the UFC has ever had. It's no longer a debate or a matter of opinion. It's a fact. He's beat all the best guys and he's had more successful title defences than anyone else in the history of the division. Until someone can take the title from him, he's the man. 

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3 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

No question about it. I didn't hear Rogan say that about Cain's resume, but if he did indeed say that, he needs a lie down. 

 

Just gone back to get the actual quote. Here's what Rogan said;

"Give Stipe a lot of money and some time off. He's not just the man, he has cemented his position as the greatest heavyweight ever. He won 3 title fights, no-one's ever done that before. I mean, he might not have beaten all the best guys that Cain's beaten but he beat Fabricio Werdum by knockout, he beat Junior Dos Santos by knockout. He's a phenomenal fighter and the baddest man on the planet. Hands down. No contest."

Fair play, it was more glowing towards Stipe than I remembered. The Cain thing seemed more like a throwaway comment in there. But I wanted Cruz or Anik to jump in and say 'well, who's Cain beaten that Stipe hasn't?' It's really just Brock and Bigfoot. Brock isn't even in the sport anymore and there's just dust where Bigfoot's chin used to be these days. Stipe's flattened the 2 guys who hold wins over Cain inside a round and beat a bunch of guys Cain hasn't. There's no argument. 

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