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People who fucked up but you still like...


FattHardy

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I'm OK watching a beniot match, because I he's good enough for me to separate the personal from the professional (and even look the other way with the blatant head trauma) but yet I can't look past less talented people being less reprehensible because it's all perspective and the balance to allow me to transgress the personal to see only the professional. 

It's obviously a balance and nothing could help Watkins, even if they weren't shit to start with. 

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I almost wept when the allegations came out about Stuart Hall. I used to love that they would send him to Wigan Vs Stoke and he'd make them grinding out a 0-0 through a tedious midfield slog sound like some epic clash of the titans. He was better than that Jim North they've got on Ninja Warrior nowadays as well. Brian Blessed should have taken over the commentary.

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Hang on a mo, Op posts in support of not only the worst of the worst Peado, they endorses the music. 

the whole Ian Watkins thing was transcripted on here, eother me or NN posted it if i remember. but yeah listen to their music after that, nah i dont thik so. Go read and then reappraise.  just no!

 

Children of the late 1970s early 1980s have this inate issue that pretty much their entire childhood and early teens are embroiled with sex, or scandals of some sort. Apparently nothing apart from Supergran was on telly and the radio waves were silent apart from Bruno Brookes :O

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It's certainly easier to separate the art from the artist when their output is essentially unconnected to the horrors they've committed. Almost every musician would be off limits if you started thinking about how many underage groupies they fucked in the 70s. John Lennon beat his wife, but he didn't do it while the tape was rolling, so people put it out of their minds. Ditto Chuck Berry making hookers eat his farts, or hiding cameras in the womens toilets in his club.

Where it becomes impossible to ignore is when the output is directly linked to the crime. The Cosby Show is stricken from the artistic record now, because Bill used the show to pick up women he intended to assault. Some of them have bit parts on the show, through which he used to groom them, before firing them once he was done. Benoit's stuff is gone now too. Everyone loved the Benoit/Jericho match at the Rumble, and that part where he dove out of the ring and Jericho waffled the top of his head with a chair was super cool. You look at that now and just see another lesion on the brain. Ditto every bump and diving headbutt.

With the likes of Savile, his crimes were horrendous, and happening on set, but nothing of artistic merit was lost. But this Hollywood Yewtree is going to cut a swathe through a lot of movies and TV shows we love, where things were happening on set, and the power gained through the success of these things was allowing it to keep happening. Who can sit through The Usual Suspects now, with Spacey and Singer both at it?

There are plenty of people who seem to get a pass from everyone though. The weirdest one for me is Tupac, who's still viewed as this beautiful poet, speaker of truth, and righteous voice for the voiceless. He literally did jail time for sexual assault, but he said that thing about a rose growing through a crack in the concrete, so ehhh.

As well as that little voice that says "He beat his wives" when I'm enjoying Austin's podcast, Mel Gibson's the tough one for me. He's a fucking headcase with some awful, awful opinions, but as a screen presence and a director... so good. It is weird how everything changed so quickly though. Nothing happened between Hacksaw Ridge and now, in terms of him saying or doing any new abhorrent things, but the outpouring of rage over his inclusion of Daddy's Home 2 is as if we're only a few days out from his worst antics. The Beaver, Hacksaw Ridge, Blood Father, Expendables 3, Machete Kills, and How I Spent My Summer Vacation all followed his terrible meltdowns by some distance, with no real voices of protest, but suddenly there's not a positive word to be read about him. He was nominated for a Best Director Oscar this year, and I don't recall much said in protest to it, but nine months later, just appearing on Graham Norton's couch has Twitter ablaze.

Not that this movement in no longer enabling abusive men isn't needed, because the whole shitty system needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt from scratch, but it's weird to think how The Beaver was sold as (and pretty much accepted as) 'Mel's penitent comeback', and now I don't think there's anything these men could say or do to ever be welcome again.

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We'll all be singing Rock n Roll Christmas in a fortnight round our house.

Wrestling is weird one, because I couldnt hand on heart say my top 10 favourite wrestlers didnt rape women in 1989. Every last one of them has that worker to the end vibe about them, where they've no doubt done some horrendous stuff. Like when Hogan got outed as a racist, my first thought was "well of course he is." Hogan, Warrior, Flair, Shawn, Savage all rumoured to be pure shitbags.

I recall the Yewtree stuff and was thinking if Del Boy is outed as one, that may end British culture. You grew up with the whole "look at Del Boy falling over" stuff, it'd be like if Santa raped a child and still eat the milk and mice pies. How could this country handle just a major cultural figure be brought down to an old nonce?

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5 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

Thought you'd be mentioning Klaus Kinski but the very first sentence covers him. 

He *must* have done some amount of shit. Never accused of anything (apart from the odd fight and shouting match), as far as I'm aware.

David Jason being outed as anything dodgy would literally end TV content for some of these fucking channels, which might be a good thing.

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As touched on by Astro, Kevin Spacey has been in so many great films that I don't think I'll ever watch again. The Usual Suspects, American Beauty, Seven for fucks sake. All wonderful films that I've watched repeatedly. Now, I don't know if I can stomach them. 

I was watching Austin Powers: Goldmember the other day and I had forgotten he had a brief cameo in it. As soon as he came on screen I felt uneasy.

 

I think a lot of the moral dilemmas people will have about this sort of thing will come down to how tolerant you are about the crime they've committed and the media in which they appear. The likes of Watkins, Saville, Benoit etc. are such reprehensible and unforgivable crimes that there's no way you can watch/listen to anything they've been involved in.

The likes of Spacey, I honestly can't see myself watching anything he has a main role in. Even now I'm trying to justify watching Seven because even though the film is all about the character he plays, he's really not in it that much. 

Mel Gibson, Steve Austin, Alec Baldwin etc. why let their dickhead behaviour ruin something that you enjoy? 

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13 hours ago, Lorne Malvo said:

You couldn't pick two worst examples than a baby-fucker and a child-murderer. Fucking hell.

I'd say Craig Charles is one for the list. Accusations of rape (despite being acquitted) and possession of drugs would typically be enough to write off most celebrities, but everyone still loves Teflon Craig, don't they? 

I have a soft spot for Mel Gibson too, despite his shortcomings.

lol shortcomings = massive antismeitism.

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3 hours ago, bAzTNM#1 said:

He *must* have done some amount of shit. Never accused of anything (apart from the odd fight and shouting match), as far as I'm aware

And sexually abusing his daughters. 

Wasnt there a spot of noncery that happened at David Jason's house but he was on holiday and knew nothing of it?

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