Smacking children

[Devon Malcolm]

7 minutes ago, Kaz Hayashi said:

Anyway, I’m just ranting and repeating now. My apologies if I have indirectly offended any of you for my choice of words, but I have very, very strong views on this subject and it’s probably best if I leave it at this.

If anyone is offended by anything you've said here, they're also cunts.

[wandshogun09]

Nah I get you Kaz. Especially if you've spent that amount of time working with troubled kids. It's not a nice thing however you slice it, is it? 

[ColinBollocks]

1 hour ago, Devon Malcolm said:

That this sort of attitude still exists in 2017 is incredibly depressing and worrying. The whole "I got a smack and I turned out alright / I'm sure I deserved it!" argument is front and centre to every reason why smacking or physically punishing children is 100% always the wrong way to go.

Yet I've twice pointed out I'm against hitting kids.

I had good parents (who I don't consider cunts, despite getting the occasional smack) though and, similar to Kaz, I have friends that work with deeply damaged kids that weren't so fortunate. I'm aware there is a scale of abuse, these kids aren't as lucky as me. These children, of course, have my sympathy.

Frankly, I did turn out fine, but again I'm aware I have good parents who love me, unlike some of the wrecks I'm sure Kaz (and certainly my friends) regularly encounter. Are my parents monsters for smacking me (which was my point)? I don't think they were, but again I wouldn't smack a child because there are others ways.

[Keith Houchen]

Yep, was beaten/had the shit kicked out of me as a child and it fucked me up.  My brother never hit his kids and they started out as brats but have grown in to fine young men.

Is your child old enough to understand reason?  If so, reason with them.  If not, hitting will teach them violence is the way to solve any problems you have in life.

[SpursRiot2012]

In reference to your experiences, @ColinBollocks, I don't think anybody who's ever smacked a child is automatically a cunt. How old are your parents? What generation? Where are they from? My experience was that Irish parents (and in my partners experience, Chinese parents) of a certain generation (who would now be 60 or 70 years old) had a spare the rod, spoil the child mentality. I don't think, in a lot of cases, they saw giving a child a smack on the bottom or hand as a bad thing. 

I do think anybody having children now who reckon it's OK to hit children - given everything we now about how it can effect a child's development and harm them long term mentally - is a cunt. 

[ColinBollocks]

@SpursRiot2012 My mother had a pretty weird childhood. My Gran married several times, which led to my Mum living in the north of England and Scotland. My old man is Fife 4 Life. Both born in the 60s. Our parents probably aren't far off, in truth. While we were working class, they made sure my brother and I got what we needed, which I forever thank them for when I've had too much Special Brew. Again, if we were arseholes we'd get to know about it. It's probably uncomfortable for some, but that element of fear completely worked on me. In that, I grew up to respect people and consequences - although, like Keith points out, there are definitely better ways to go about it. Similar to getting bullied, as a young lad, while at the time traumatic (far more humiliating than a skelped arse), definitely helped me gain a bit more backbone and thicker skin when I grew up. All trauma doesn't necessarily have to be a complete negative, in my life anyway.

Again, I appreciate this isn't every experience, but they are mine. I'd be completely disingenuous to say it didn't work for me, even if (again, again, again & again) I wouldn't do it.

[Carbomb]

I was smacked, not beaten, when I was bad as a child. My parents are not cunts. Dad's from a much more traditional upbringing, and I know from one of my aunts that my grandfather was an absolute fucking sadist when it came to punishments, so I appreciated that he was pretty restrained, considering that background. Both my parents had smacking as part of their own upbringing; there wasn't as much work done on child psychology, child care, social values as there has been in the past couple of decades, so they didn't have that kind of guidance available to tell them there was another way.

As for myself, I believe I wouldn't smack my kids and would indeed find different ways to discipline them. My cousin's use of the naughty step on his kid is very effective. It's all academic, though - I've got a horrible, sneaking feeling that I'd be a rotten dad, so don't want to bring any new lives into this world that'd have to rely on me.

[ThumpSquids]

I'm a 40-year old father of one, who's six. I'm also a primary school teacher, having moved over from social work some years ago. I've spent my entire adult life learning to work with young people and their family's, and am happily aware that I know fuck all as yet. What I do see however, is that people who strike their child have either lost all self-control, enjoy the brief flash of power it can offer, or are simply ignorant of any other form of behaviour correction, which is also inexcusable. There're tons of websites, books, courses on becoming a 'positive parent', much of which is free.

Personally, I hate the idea of naughty step/spot/chair/corner. I remember well being put on the naughty step, and spent all of that time thinking about 'naughty'. I understand the reasoning behind it, (attention withdrawal, needing to have something, etc) but there are far better and more empowering techniques than that. And I'm glad there are, otherwise my job would be shite, which it isn't. Loads of new research also, and some pretty straight forward, step by step, long term behaviour management suggestions all over the place right now, which anyone could attempt.

Also, I'm typing as a smacked, fostered, beaten, then adopted child, who grew up knowing that not a drop of it worked to correct negative choices. And I'm still learning.   

[John Matrix]

I'd never dream of raising a hand to either of my boys, and, frankly have no memory of whether or not I ever got a hiding as a kid - suspect I may have done at some point.

That said though, i'm no fucking saint.  I personally feel as though shouting and raised aggressive voices are every bit as damaging and yet I clock up a few of those a week where i've gone nuclear after not being listened to for the dozenth time, or, more specifically, when there's a fall/something breaks/one runs into the other as a result of not having been listened to.

That said, i'm fascinated to hear from other parents on here how you'd handle similar situations.  It's entirely borne out of frustration, when i've ran out of ideas or nothing else seems to have sunk in, but I still hate myself afterwards for resorting to it - when you've asked them to stay away from the hazard, asked again, asked a third time, raised your voice asking for the fourth time, physically removed them from the hazard only for them to return two seconds later before the inevitable happens, by that point I've go nothing left in the toolkit.

There have also been times where i've had to physically restrain my eldest (3) not because he's being wild or violent, but because he's putting himself, his younger brother, or me in danger by running around, swinging something around recklessly - if he ever transitions to MMA upkicks from his back will be lethal - even that shit makes me uncomfortable, but again when 'would you kindly stop doing that please' fails, i'm not entirely sure what else to do.

 

[PJ Power]

Quote

When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the time he reaches the age of one year. To do this, a child must receive correction when he is a small infant. Every parent recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every other physical way.”

https://kittycat1.wordpress.com/horror-hidden-behind-god-hephzibah-house/

[Carbomb]

Fucking hell, that's a horrifying read - and I only read the first two paragraphs. Fucking twisted.

[MungoChutney]

@ThumpSquids, I agree with a lot of your post. When I worked in frontline childcare I implemented a 'time-in' programme that replaced the traditional approach of giving kids 5 to 10 minutes of time out when they'd misbehaved or become disruptive.  It worked far better to have a member of staff sit with them for the cooling down period and helping them to manage their anger or whatever had caused the behaviour.

As a primary school teacher I'd be interested to know your thoughts on behaviour charts that are displayed on a classroom wall.  My son's school is really good and very progressive in a lot of their approach. Yet still every class has some kind of chart with kids names and yellow and red card systems showing everyone who the teacher had decided was worth of a public warning/stripping of privileges.  I find that to be a really poor approach at best at a breach of the UNCRC at worst.

 

Edit: @John Matrix, I might be able to talk the professional talk in this thread but I've also been where you are with my son. All I can really say is try to be clear with him about what's acceptable and make sure consequences are clear and consistent as well.  A raised voice will make you feel like crap but don't be too hard on yourself as you're clearly able to identify where you might be going wrong.  Personally i think you sound like the average parent.

 

Would your oldest be able to understand the concept of a behaviour chart or stickers for reward? I used to use this when my some was 3-5. If he filled up his chart he'd get a small reward. Not a fan of these on public show in schools but they work great at home.

[Tommy!]

I consider the general injustice in the discipline process of the education system as a huge factor in my mistrust of authority, cynicism and general distrust and dislike of people as a society. No one ever hit me, except 'friends', I suspect I would have reacted badly to anything physical in that mix. 

That said seeing people who were trouble making louts who didn't try get a pat on the head and all the positive attention and hardworking honest people get ignored because they do try hard wasn't a winning formula either. 

[Cod Eye]

Personally, the closest I have come to smacking my kids is a little tap on their hands when they were trying to grab something they shouldn't. No where near hard enough to actually hurt them, but as an indication that said item was either dangerous and could hurt them, or not something they should be touching, and always after multiple verbal warnings. It seemed to work despite being able to count on one hand how many times it actually happened. And crucially, none of my kids have a single violent bone in their body. Even my 14 year old son who is complete unit, is a gentle giant who detests violence and is even souring of wrestling because of it.

My own parents(and later just my mam) tried all sorts of punishments with me. I was smacked on the arse, on the hands, legs and head once. She locked me in my room a few times, which was more of a punishment than any of the smacks, and even makes me uneasy when in a closed room to this day. I can totally forgive her though, as the other 99% of the time I had a fantastic childhood. And personally, I think thats the key thing. If your of my generation(80's child) and parents are/were horrible people, the violence will have little effect on your behaviour and has the ability to have a lasting effect. If they were decent, hard working people who were good parents, the smacks can have a fairly positive result. They did with me, anyway.

Could well possibly be wrong though...

[UK Kat Von D]

I couldn’t imagine doing it to my child, but he responds very well to me being reasonable and explaining why he shouldn’t do things. Then he learns and takes it on board and doesn’t do it again.

However I was a fucking nutcase at school, and rightfully had it knocked out of me. My Dad used to to take a belt to the back of my legs when I’d really fucked up. It sounds awful, but I really don’t blame him. After my Mother’s death around age 8 I just lost the plot, and reason just didn’t effect or work on me. I won’t go into what I did to deserve physical punishment, but if it hadn’t been for that I’d most likely be dead or in prison now.

Dad feels awful about it now, but I needed it to keep me from going down a really dark path.