UFC 212: Aldo vs Holloway

[wandshogun09]

Yeah ok, but how long were the UFC meant to wait for him to come back to 145? It wasn't going  to happen. And I totally get why. He's done pretty much all there is to do at 145. Time to conquer 155. That's fine but you don't get to keep the belt of a division you don't fight in anymore. The only time I heard McGregor on about returning to 145 was around UFC 200, where he said fighting Frankie Edgar was one option for him (of a bunch at the time) but Frankie losing to Aldo shelved that. Aside from that, he wasn't that arsed about featherweight anymore. He was on about fighting at 155, 170 and of course the Mayweather thing. Then he took time off for his baby being born. They couldn't have just put the belt on ice indefinitely. 

Saying all this, I don't even think McGregor's that bothered about the 145 belt now. It seems fans bring it up more than him. He never lost it so he can always say that. But I always thought the only reason he wanted to hold onto the 145 title was because he wanted to hold 2 belts at the same time. Once he accomplished that, I think his necessity to hold onto the featherweight belt became less important. He was never going to defend both belts simultaneously. It's a nice idea but it was never realistic. 

Like Ebb says, if Conor ever returns to 145 he should automatically get a shot straight away. Same way GSP's going to jump the queue at 170. That should always be the case IMO, if you've got a former champ returning to a division where he never lost the belt. But if you leave a division, you leave the title with it and whoever wins it next is the rightful and deserving champion. 

I get why McGregor's name comes up given his history in that division and with Aldo and Holloway. But I think it's a shame that we've got such an incredible fight happening tonight and we're talking about McGregor instead. When he mightn't even end up back in the UFC, much less at 145. 

[Noah Southworth]

Some last minute predictions;

Holloway by Decision
Gadelha by Decision
Marquardt by KO/TKO
Costa by KO/TKO
Medeiros by KO/TKO
Moraes by KO/TKO
Júnior by Submission
Eduardo by KO/TKO
Alcântara by KO/TKO
Pereira by Decision
Chagas by Decision
Alcantra by Submission

I think the top two fights are going to be very competitive and could go either way. If Holloway does win, it’ll be considered an upset, but I don’t think it’ll be much of one because Holloway is just that good. I’ve picked Gadelha but I hope Kowalkiewicz wins, simply because I just can’t get excited by Gadelha getting a third crack at Joanna Champion. I’ve seen how that one goes, twice. We don’t need a third viewing. At least Kowalkiewicz had Joanna in trouble, albeit briefly. I’d like to see if she can do that again and improve upon that. The rest of the card is kind of ‘there’. I’ll be interested to see what Marlon Moraes can do against what a strong UFC-level opponent.

[herbie747]

1 hour ago, wandshogun09 said:

But I think it's a shame that we've got such an incredible fight happening tonight and we're talking about McGregor instead. When he mightn't even end up back in the UFC, much less at 145. 

 

It'll be a great fight. All I'm saying is a) Holloway shouldn't have been given an interim title. It's ridiculous. And b) whoever wins (especially if it's Aldo), I won't consider to be the real FW champ, since both of them already lost to the same guy. 

This match could do 2 things to the FW title picture - the division itself loses credibility since neither of these guys beat the champ to win it. Or they're seen as a placeholder champion (even if McGregor is never coming back). Or both. All it takes is for McGregor to keep swanning around with the FW belt a few times & say they never beat him & he's the real champ & their belt is fake. And it's not as if he doesn't have the outlets. He can easily discredit them, and likely will - especially if Aldo wins. He'll enjoy rubbing it in until the poor cunt kills himself.

I know it's not their fault - but it's a tough situation for the division to overcome. McGregor came into UFC and dissed the entire FW division - he said he was going to smash all of them & win the title - and he did exactly what he said he'd do, and then left. So now we have a situation where he's left them all looking like a pack of bums fighting over a sandwich. Ok, that was a bit harsh, but you get the premise.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, I get what you mean. I just don't see it as looking like 'bums fighting over a sandwich' as you put it  its still a really, really strong division. One of the most talent rich divisions in the UFC right now. From Aldo to Holloway to Edgar to Swanson, Superboy, Lamas, Zombie, Bermudez, Barao, Yair and so on. The list goes on and on. And as amazing as the things McGregor did at the weight are, we'll never know how say a rematch with Holloway might go now. I think they've both come on massively since their 2013 fight and I'd love to see them square off again. Or Edgar vs McGregor. I still think that's a hell of a fight. It's not like these guys aren't great fighters who couldn't potentially give Conor problems. They're probably never going to get the chance to try now because Conor's got bigger, blacker, richer, woman beating, boxing glove wearing fish to fry. 

I'm 100% with you that the interim title was completely unnecessary in this case though. I said the same at the time. The only reason that title was created was as you said, because the UFC 206 main event (DC vs Rumble 2) fell out and they wanted a title fight headlining that card. That's it. Aldo had already won the interim title by schooling Edgar at UFC 200, and was then made the proper champ once McGregor was stripped. There was no need for another interim title at all. But as shit as all these interim belts are, that's the way the UFC is going these days. Soon we'll be having interim interim champions. For when the interim champ is injured/suspended etc. Its a joke but we're stuck with it. Like Reebok. 

I actually miss the days of Condom Depot and MusclePharm and Venum and all that bollocks. 

 

[wandshogun09]

Anyway back to 212...

Just caught the weigh in and I was struck by the Belfort weigh in in particular. He couldn't have looked less enthusiastic and less bothered if he tried. He weighed in in a full tracksuit and a hat on, then strolled over to Marquardt for the most half arsed face off ever. Go back and compare this weigh in to his weigh in vs Bisping in 2013 and it's night and day. Night and fucking day the contrast.  

I was originally picking him to beat Marquardt and I know you can't always read too much into the weigh ins but fuck me, after seeing how half hearted his staredown was and how he just looked like he wanted to be somewhere...anywhere else, I'm fancying Nate to wallop him now. He just doesn't look motivated at all. And you'd think he would be considering his UFC career is finishing up and it might be his last time fighting in front of such a huge Brazilian crowd on a such big stage. Just nothing. 

Actually, that's another point. Belfort's been saying this is his last fight in the UFC but I was listening to Dana White the other day on a podcast (might have been Serra's but not sure now) and Dana insisted that Vitor still owes them one more fight after this one tonight. 

[Carbomb]

Shit. Do bookies allow changes to bets now? I've got him winning in my acca.

[herbie747]

1 hour ago, wandshogun09 said:

Yeah, I get what you mean. I just don't see it as looking like 'bums fighting over a sandwich' as you put it  its still a really, really strong division. One of the most talent rich divisions in the UFC right now. From Aldo to Holloway to Edgar to Swanson, Superboy, Lamas, Zombie, Bermudez, Barao, Yair and so on. The list goes on and on. And as amazing as the things McGregor did at the weight are, we'll never know how say a rematch with Holloway might go now. I think they've both come on massively since their 2013 fight and I'd love to see them square off again. Or Edgar vs McGregor. I still think that's a hell of a fight. It's not like these guys aren't great fighters who couldn't potentially give Conor problems. They're probably never going to get the chance to try now because Conor's got bigger, blacker, richer, woman beating, boxing glove wearing fish to fry. 

I'm 100% with you that the interim title was completely unnecessary in this case though. I said the same at the time. The only reason that title was created was as you said, because the UFC 206 main event (DC vs Rumble 2) fell out and they wanted a title fight headlining that card. That's it. Aldo had already won the interim title by schooling Edgar at UFC 200, and was then made the proper champ once McGregor was stripped. There was no need for another interim title at all. But as shit as all these interim belts are, that's the way the UFC is going these days. Soon we'll be having interim interim champions. For when the interim champ is injured/suspended etc. Its a joke but we're stuck with it. Like Reebok. 

I actually miss the days of Condom Depot and MusclePharm and Venum and all that bollocks. 

 

Yeah, I'd agree with all that. The only point I was really making was that Conor essentially damaged the division by conquering it and then buggering off. It'll be a hard perception to break, especially if he trolls people by saying he's still the FW champ. He'll have Aldo suicidal.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I'm so delighted Aldo got fed his arse. One the most loathsome and tiresome fighters in all of MMA. I could happily watch him got battered any day of the week.

Though, I did enjoy Max trying to do a Conor impression at the end of round 2, only to find out almost immediately that it isn't as easy as it looks.

[Noah Southworth]

Marco Beltrán (126lbs, 8-4) vs. Deiveson Figueiredo (126lbs, 11-0) was a nice if pretty one-sided opener, with Figueiredo really dominating Beltrán on the ground, which is where most of the fight was spent.  Beltrán looked to have an advantage striking, but he just couldn’t stop Figueiredo from getting the fight the ground, and he had no real counters when it got there. Figueiredo ended the second round by dropping Beltrán with an uppercut, following up with a few big shots on the ground before the round ended. Where the third round would have gone we never found out as the referee stopped the fight between rounds, but they never really explained why. Whatever the reason, Beltrán and his corner didn’t seem to protest, so they appeared to have no problems with it.
Five Word Review: Ground-based domination from Figueiredo.

Luan Chagas (171lbs, 14-2-1) vs. Jim Wallhead (170lbs, 29-10) was a fairly good scrap, pretty much a stand-up battle. This was a little more competitive than the first fight, but for the most part, Chagas was too much for Wallhead; his movement and striking, especially his kicks, were things Wallhead just couldn’t counter or deal with. Late in the second, Chagas dropped Wallhead with a jab, following up with a rear naked choke and quickly manoeuvring into position to get the tap. A good win for Chagas but Wallhead has lost two in a row and for most, that’s usually enough for you to get the chop.
Five Word Review: A fine one-sided scrap.

Viviane Pereira (113lbs, 12-0) vs. Jamie Moyle (116lbs, 4-1) followed the pattern of a good but one-sided fight, and in this case, it was Pereira who dominated. Pereira had the movement, was cutting off the cage, mixing up the combinations, and she was just too skilled for Moyle. Pereria is young and has lots of room to grow, but if she keeps improving at the rate she has so far, she could go a long way.
Five Word Review: Great display from emerging star.

Iuri Alcântara (136lbs, 34-7) vs. Brian Kelleher (134lbs, 16-7) was, short and sweet. Alcântara was looking good in the stand-up but when Kellher started to fight back, Alcântara went to take Kellher down and in the process, left his neck open and Kelleher managed to snatch a guillotine choke and get the tap out. The choke came out of nowhere, the tap was quick, and Kellher silenced the Brazilians with a win that really announced his arrival to the UFC.
Five Word Review: Newcomer stuns with sudden submission.

Johnny Eduardo (136lbs, 28-10) vs. Matthew Lopez (136lbs, 9-1) was another short scrap, lots of wild strikes from both sides. Eduardo threw a kick that Lopez caught and took Eduardo down. Eduardo tried a heel hook but Lopez survived and ended up in top position and landed punches and hammerfists; Lopez was battering Eduardo, who was not defending himself at all, but for some reason, Mario Yamasaki seemed content to stand there and watch and let it keep going and going and going before almost casually stepping in to stop the fight. A great showing from Lopez, but the same can’t be said for Mario Yamasaki, who has taken up Steve Mazzagatti’s mantle as the worst referee in the sport.
Five Word Review: Decent scrap with terrible officiating.

Antônio Carlos Júnior (185lbs, 7-1) vs. Eric Spicely (184lbs, 10-1) was a good fight, predominantly fought on the ground. ACJ was the better of the two on the ground but Spciely was able to hold his own, especially during an extended period where they were both caught up in position for a leglock, the 50/50, so called because both fighters are equally threatened. A ground scramble in the second round saw ACJ get the back of Spicely and eventually get a rear naked choke for tap out.
Five Word Review: Fine showing from  Carlos Júnior.

Raphael Assunção (136lbs, 24-5) vs. Marlon Moraes (136lbs, 18-4-1) saw the much anticipated UFC debut of Marlon Moraes. It would be harsh to say Moraes failed to impress but this was definitely a fight that definitely did not live up to expectations. It wasn’t bad but it wasn’t great, just about achieving the status of ‘average’. Assunção and Moraes both looked fine but none more overly so than the other. It was a close fight and this was reflected in the fact that it went to split-decision with Assunção getting the nod. Moraes’ long win streak comes to an end in an unsuccessful and overall unimpressive performance. It’ll be interesting to see how Moraes does in his next fight, as we’ll find out if his performance here was down to nerves or some other factor, or whether the step up in class was just too much.
Five Word Review: Close, competitive but rather uninspiring.

Erick Silva (171lbs, 19-7) vs. Yancy Medeiros (171lbs, 13-4) was a fine fight, fairly wild and competitive with Silva edging ahead as the fight developed. Then, in the second round, they exchanged punches in in the pocket and Medeiros dropped Silva with a left hook; Silva looked rocked and Medieros followed up with some more punches, and as Silva appeared to be grabbing hold of Medeiros, the referee stepped in and called the fight off. Silva protested the stoppage and it initially looked like he had a good a case for it being called off, however on the replay, it’s clear that Silva wasn’t grabbing hold of Mederios; his arms were kind of just out there, not really doing anything, so if that’s what the referee saw, then it’s a good call on his part.
Five Word Review: Good opener; slightly unsatisfying ending.

Paulo Borrachinha (186lbs, 9-0) vs. Oluwale Bamgbose (184lbs, 6-2) was expected to be short and/or violent. The first round was certainly intense, with Bamgose going crazy with wild swings and big takedown attempts. Borrachinha weathered it well and was able to come back strong as Bamgbose started to tire and by the end of the round, Bamgbose didn’t appear to have much left in the tank. And early in the second, Bamgbose wiffed on a kick, fell down, and offered little resistance as Borrachinha delivered ground and pound and that was all she wrote. Perhaps not quite as violent as expected but still pretty wild and unrestrained.
Five Word Review: Swinging for the fences aplenty.

Vitor Belfort (185lbs, 25-13) vs. Nate Marquardt (186lbs, 35-17-1) was another fight expected to be short, in the case because both fighters involved are susceptible to being knocked out. Unfortunately, the first round was fought with both fighters having that well in mind, as they were slow and very cautious. Things picked up somewhat in the second, including a flurry from Vitor that that looked to have Nate in trouble, but the pace once again slowed for the reste of the round. The third round was more of the slow same until late on when both men kicked it into second gear but no higher, both fighter unable and unwilling to go any harder. It was a close fight, if not that good, but I thought Vitor edged it. The judges agreed, all three scoring it 29-28, and whilst Marquardt wasn’t happy, it was the right decision.
Five Word Review: Slow, plodding and overall uninspiring.

Cláudia Gadelha (116lbs, 14-2) vs. Karolina Kowalkiewicz (115lbs, 10-1) was the reverse of the previous fight; widely expected to the distance but ending early. The fight hit the ground about two minutes in with Gadhela in control, just too dominant for Kowalkiewicz as she took her back and quickly worked her way into a rear naked choke for the tap. This was a big win for Gadhela but Kowalkiewicz almost pulled a Hogan in stealing the spotlight with how she reacted to losing. Poor Kowalkiewicz looked so crestfallen that your heart almost broke for the poor lady. Gadhela makes a big statement that should ensure she gets yet another crack at Joanna J.
Five Word Review: Big statement from title contender.

José Aldo (c) (146lbs, 26-2) vs. Max Holloway (ic) (146lbs, 17-3) started off with a slow first round, outside of a pair of exciting flurries from Aldo that had Holloway backing up. Things picked up a lot in the second round, with Holloway finally able to get off some sustained offense and looking good. Aldo landed more, and perhaps harder, but Holloway was starting to find his rhythm and make this a fight and it looked like Aldo was starting to breath a little heavier. The third round started with both fighters methodical. Then just over two minutes in, Holloway rocked and dropped Aldo and Holloway pounced. Aldo did well to try and survive, but he couldn’t really defend against Holloway and was taking a lot of shots; it was very close to getting stopped as Holloway literally stayed on top of Aldo, the champion unable to buck him off. Holloway kept going and going and Aldo wouldn’t give up, but he wasn’t defending and eventually, the referee had no choice but to call it off. Aldo was not happy, the fans were not happy, but Aldo was getting battered and it could have been stopped a number of times before it finally was. Max Holloway came to Brazil to make a statement and he made a huge statement. It took him a while to get going, but once he did, Holloway was just too much for Aldo, who just had nothing to offer in the way of defence when the fight hit the ground.
Five Word Review: Holloway establishes himself as kingpin.

UFC 212 was a show that had little in the way of name value going into it but it did have a lot of promise in terms of action. Whilst the action didn’t always live up to that promise, it definitely had its moments, capped off with Max Holloway handing Aldo a very decisive defeat and establishing himself as the new kingpin of the featherweight division. It’ll be interesting to see where Aldo goes from here. Does he try to go back after the featherweight title? Or does he move up to lightweight and go for the McGregor rematch that he desperately wants? For Holloway, his path is more clear and a title defence against Frankie Edgar should be next for him.

[ColinBollocks]

Fantastic main event. Shame we never got another round before the stoppage.

It was interesting seeing Holloway slowly figure out Aldo. Aldo looked great in the first, but Holloway was getting the timing as the fight went on.

If Aldo moans about the stoppage then he is indeed tiresome. Big John gave him all time and chances to get out of it, but Aldo was just getting smashed.

[jimufctna24]

Max was excellent. He took a while to get going - as he sometimes does - and even took some meaty shots from Aldo. But by round 3 he was in his element. It's probably best for the division that Max won. It opens up Max vs Edgar, which is a fresh and viable fight. 

I just had a look at the Featherweight rankings. Aldo has already faced most of the top 10. If Pettis beats Miller, then it might be worth doing Aldo vs Pettis, provided Aldo stays at 145lbs. There's plenty of juicy fights for Aldo at Lightweight. I wouldn't mind seeing him against Ferguson, Khabib or even Diaz. I think his days of domination are over though. He's not bossing the Lightweight division in its current form. But there are still plenty of fights for him out there. 

[Noah Southworth]

26 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

 

I just had a look at the Featherweight rankings. Aldo has already faced most of the top 10. If Pettis beats Miller, then it might be worth doing Aldo vs Pettis, provided Aldo stays at 145lbs. There's plenty of juicy fights for Aldo at Lightweight. I wouldn't mind seeing him against Ferguson, Khabib or even Diaz. I think his days of domination are over though. He's not bossing the Lightweight division in its current form. But there are still plenty of fights for him out there. 

Pettis moved back up to lightweight after his failed featherweight cut for UFC 206, so any fight with Aldo would be at 155lbs. Not that I expect that fight to happen. I think unless Aldo really wants that Conor rematch, he'll stay at featherweight. Aldo is a guy who wouldn’t have to cut much, if any, weight to make 155lbs. It seems to be his natural weight. In that regard, he’s like Frankie Edgar. Edgar cut very little weight to make 155lbs, and whilst he had a lot of success, he was inevitably going to hit a wall when he faced lightweights who did cut weight to make 155lbs and were quite a bit bigger than he was by the time they stepped into the octagon. I think that’s a major reason why he ultimately came up short against Benson Henderson. Henderson was the far bigger fighter. When Henderson fought at welterweight, he looked exactly the same as he did at lightweight, which tells you what his weight is when he enters the octagon.

I think Aldo would face the same problem as Edgar if he moved up to lightweight; he would have success against the smaller lightweights who don’t cut much weight, but the bigger ones would have too much size and power over him. It’s in Aldo’s best interests to stay in a division where, at worst, he’s the same size as his opponent, but at best, he has the size and power advantage to go along with his speed and quickness advantage he already possesses.

[jimufctna24]

Ahhh, my memory is on the blink. I forgot Pettis had moved back up

[ColinBollocks]

I think Aldo beats most of the division still too. Whether or not he'll ever best Holloway is up for debate, though.

[Noah Southworth]

16 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

I think Aldo beats most of the division still too. Whether or not he'll ever best Holloway is up for debate, though.

I think that will come down to what the reason was for Aldo not being at his best. I’m not taking anything away from Holloway, because he looked great. But I thought it became obvious by the second round that something wasn’t right with Aldo. He was noticeably tiring, something which usually doesn’t happen until the later rounds, he was a little slower, and, most interestingly, he threw few if any leg kicks. In fact, I don’t think he threw even one the whole fight. Outside of the Swanson fight because he never had time, when was the last time Aldo had a fight and he didn’t throw leg kicks?

If Aldo was ill or injured, then we’ll find out if he can beat Holloway in the rematch, because Aldo will presumably be healthier and near his best. But if it’s because Aldo is simply hitting the slide that every fighter does at some point, then he’s probably never beating Holloway because Holloway is only going to get better.