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IANdrewDiceClay

Billy Corgan buys the NWA

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Finally caught up (barring the PPV). Thoroughly enjoyed all this, and I agree that Tim Storm is a tremendous babyface. Really do want to see him get his hands on Aldis, and I have to admit: Aldis is doing a great job. I still don't think he's all that in comparison to some of the talent in other promotions, but he's definitely a star, and certainly the stand-out in the NWA at the moment. Apart from Storm, I can't really see anyone else holding the world championship, with the potential exception of James Storm. Eli Drake looks like he'll get there at some point, but he's not quite "it" yet. Always been a fan of Marty, but I haven't seen enough of his work since becoming "The Villain" to know what he's capable of yet - so it'll be fun to see him on this run.

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Like Bomby, I've also had a big catch up. Like AEW, I'm enjoying this as a whole. I like the environment and shows are a breeze. Unlike AEW the matches are quick and easy to get through and the promos are something to genuinely look forward to.

I've some gripes but they're minor in the grand scheme. Seen plenty of comments recently about how people want something to be "good". I think NWA is good. I think AEW is good. I don't see NXT now I'm Network-less but what I see on YouTube is good. None of it is all good. There'll never be a wrestling show again that is all good. That's if there ever was. Even back in the day, when we'd look forward to Raw all week and watch it a couple of times waiting for the next episode, it wasn't all good. The really good stuff was just so good that you could ignore the bits that were terrible. That's the case here. Tim Storm & Aldis is such a good story that the crap doesn't matter. Plus, like the old shows, the crap stuff only lasts a minute or two.

I do find it funny that everything about AEW is massively debated and ripped to pieces but if it's on NWA, there's no discussion. I like the concept of the TV Title tournament. They've done a good job with the draw and the matches. That triple threat qualifier to get into the qualifiers would have been ripped to pieces on AEW. One of the guys in the match was a guy no-one had ever heard of, Dicky Dice or something. That would have been ripped to pieces on AEW. Can't have anyone on TV who hasn't had months of vigenttes can we? Stu Bennett called the referee an idiot in a tag match. That would have been ripped to pieces if JR did it.

There's a massive difference in acceptable standard. The women's matches are sloppy as fuck. That 6-person tag on Ep 11 was the shits. The character and promo work from the women is decent but it's still not good. Who were the heels in that 6-person by the way? Because Melina is a bitch. Belle turned on Kay. Yet when Thunder Rosa and ODB squared up, Galli said it was two fan favourites going at it. That makes no sense.

Another odd line, they said outside interference is banned during the TV title tournament. If they can do that, why the fuck is it allowed in all the other matches? That's nonsense.

That angle to put Aldis together with the Wildcards and Kamille as a stable was good. The first thing on the next show, they made Isaacs look like the biggest pussy on the roster running away from James Storm. What on earth was that about? Why would you do that after 1 week?

Let's talk about Eli Drake. What the fuck are people watching? His poundshop Steve Austin stuff and that hideous "yeah" catchphrase are dreadful. Then he keeps breaking into song like he's The Rock. He's such a fucking parody. He's got something, no doubt, but none of it feels like HIM. It never has. It's ironic that he's been working with Mr Kennedy because he's absolutely the role model for him here. Remember when Kennedy came along and people wet themselves about his charisma. He was just the same. A fella watching Austin and Rock tapes and trying to carry it off.

Don't want it to feel like I'm burying this because I'm not. TV Title tournament is really well done. The belt is a beauty. Tim Storm's promos are the GOAT. I'm really coming around on Aldis - his work has been superb recently. Stu Bennett is MAGNIFICENT on commentary. Get him on Raw tomorrow. Well, Monday. Really enjoy these guys we haven't seen for a while popping up from nowhere like Koloff, Pope, CW Anderson, ODB. Keeps a freshness. The matches being short and not all being spotfests is still very refreshing. Just a great hour of TV, mostly.

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I'd say that's a fair summation, rick. One thing I'm surprised you didn't mention, given the women's division heel/face situation, is what was going on in the Drake/Anderson feud. Drake was a weird one for weeks, looking like someone stirring the pot yet pandering to the crowd, then confirms his heel status by whacking supposedly-confirmed face Anderson (mainly because he'd been teaming with definite blue-eye Cabana) in the back of the head with a metal turnbuckle, only for him to be a face the very next week just because Anderson got his revenge with a chair to the throat. Then he's doing all that Christmas drunkenness like a face too (and that Stone Cold "What"-style "YEAHHH" thing was irritating, but you could see why it caught on).

I don't know what to make of "Outlandish" Zicky Dice. There's something about him that really fits this programme - he's 80s as fuck, and puts me in mind of a weird fusion of Michael Hayes, Jimmy Valiant, and Jessie Ventura (and he rips off Rick Rude's finish too). He also looks like how I'd imagine Steve Corino would look if he'd been in the 80s NWA. At the same time, he gives me the impression that he hasn't quite "grown into" his gimmick yet, like he's still a bit unsure of it. The way he's been presented is interesting, though - no introduction, and others react to him like he's barely tolerated on the programme, more like an annoyance that the NWA felt they had to give a contract just to shut him up.

The women's division is a bit of a mess, I agree. Apart from Allysin Kay, there aren't any blue-eye stars, and I don't rate Kay all that highly, to be honest. Either as Sienna in TNA or her character now, she just comes across to me as yet another indy worker trying to put a load of elements together that they think is cool, but don't actually make any sense or speak to what she's supposed to be. Basically doing the indy thing of trying to be the "evolved" gimmick without putting in the time with the crowd on TV or PPV to get to that point.

Apart from being a bit fiery, I don't know what Ashley Vox is supposed to be, same with Tasha Steels. And the other faces just fade into the background (to be fair, they've been mainly jobbers).

They've done a better job with the heels, not allowing Melina to be over-exposed by having her wrestle very little, and not being afraid to give Thunder Rosa the lion's share of the action - they seem to recognise she works well as a vicious little bastard with legit MMA toughness, so she can also sell a bit for Kay without being damaged too much. Oddly, I think they've done very well with Marti Belle, making an otherwise generic worker quite memorable by having her turn heel on her friend and then team up with her fellow Latinas. 

They've also done a good job with keeping Kamille away from the women's division for the moment. They need to establish the division before they have her come in as the monster destroying everyone. Given what they're doing with Aldis and Strictly Business (terrible name), it makes sense to wait until there's a women's belt for her to take.

I had no problem with Stu Bennett calling the ref an idiot, given that he's commentating as a heel. In general, he's just been bloody good. It's an odd one for me, because I just feel a guy his size who can still go should really be in the ring.

Thing about Eli Drake is that he is a rip-off of several big names, most notably The Rock, but he's delivering it with such conviction that it actually works. I just hope he finally figures out his own niche, because it'd be a waste to have someone with such obvious presence and personality just parroting someone else.

Why are they just using Austin Idol for those funny adverts? The guy clearly should be a manager. Although whom I'd have him managing, I'm not sure - most of the significant roster, oddly, have pretty good mike ability.

Oh, and the Question Mark? Who'd have thought it, eh? Will be interesting to see where they go with him. They clearly didn't think he was going to get over like that so quickly.

Edited by Carbomb

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To be fair if people didn't have higher expectations for a prime time TNT show than a YouTube show I'd be worried for AEW. 

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1 hour ago, Vamp said:

To be fair if people didn't have higher expectations for a prime time TNT show than a YouTube show I'd be worried for AEW. 

Nothing I've mentioned has anything to do with the TV outlet, production budget or anything other than booking, direction and work. they're controllable whether you're producing a show on prime time TV or a no chinese allowed show at a working men's club in Leeds. It's got nothing to with expectation, just judging it fairly on the output.

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16 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

no chinese allowed show at a working men's club in Leeds.

Now all I want is a pie. Cheers Rick! Sure to be a real treat too. 

Amazes me how easy it is to sit through and watch NWA. The hour just flies by. Pretty much the only wrestling I watch nowadays. Echoing the love for Tim Storm too! 

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You said about AEW being ripped to pieces and the NWA isn't. I said it would be weird if people expected the same of a prime time television show as they do a YouTube show. Therefore people have lower expectations of the NWA so they're not going to rip into it much.

Plus there's less conversation about it because less people are watching it.

I will say that I feel naturally warm towards the NWA when I watch it and coolly detached from AEW and I thinks that's a presentation issue that I can't explain. There's something charming about the NWA product. 

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Just now, Vamp said:

Plus there's less conversation about it because less people are watching it.

That's probably it. I still don't think expectations should have anything to do with it unless the criticisms are directly related to the limited budgets and environment. I was making what I think are apples to apples comparisons. I was mainly just pointing out the hyperbolic nature of some of the criticisms of AEW, which I have done consistently. It's not about panning NWA at all, I'm very much enjoying it.

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Tim Storm is the best face in any of the main companies right now by a very long shot, and that's because he's presented as a babyface. He's not some dogshit middle-ground shades of grey like AEW are full of, and he's not getting shoved down our throats as a superhero like WWE does. He's just a guy who was world champ before, wanted to be world champ again, gave it everything he could and came up short and now he's doing the best he can. There's nobody else like him. He's relatable, likeable and you want to see him go all the way.

Aldis' new group (I don't mind the name Strictly Business but it's not the best) makes sense but turning Royce's Isaacs' gimmick completely on it's head 1 week in, giving him a valet who doesn't seem to be part of SB and then having him be a chickenshit singles guy when he's just lost the tag belts is an odd choice. There's something about Isaacs though, he's got these steely blue eyes and reminds me a little of Jake The Snake. Nowhere near him in-ring though. 

The entire Women's division bar Thunder Rosa and ODB is a mess. I've started skipping it because it's sloppy and boring and Marti Belle stinks.

It's the best weekly wrestling show for me. The good is great, the matches are short, it's exciting to see who shows up every week and it doesn't overstay it's welcome. Best opening in wrestling history too.

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10 hours ago, tiger_rick said:

would have been ripped to pieces on AEW. etc etc

I don't really agree. Here's my opinion.

I thought AEW was going to be great, and was massively disappointed having watched their first PPV. The PPV opening with a man with no limbs in the ring was a bad start. Be under no illusions, if NWA booked that, it would get ripped to pieces all the same. Plenty of other things AEW have done would have been ripped to shreds in NWA or wherever it occurred. AEW is, however, going to be open to more criticism being a big show on a big channel. Plenty of indy shows are putting on silly shite every week, and while getting criticism sometimes they wont get it on the same level due to having a small product with a small reach.

Onto NWA, I enjoy it, I think it's a well booked show, nice tight roster, nice tight storylines, good announcers. As a show for me it's the best thing in wrestling, but that's partly because it's only an hour long, and has (for me) the right mix of promos, storytelling and matches. It's not without fault, and not immune to criticism, but when it's only an hour show, and you come away thinking it was great, it's nitpicking to find faults.

Basically, they're both open to criticism, AEW slightly more so due to it's level and expectations. In my opinion all things considered NWA is a great watch, and AEW (from the little I've seen) isn't. But you're entitled to like or dislike both, and they don't need compared.

 

 

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Tim Storm's booking is superb, and you can tell he's speaking from the heart rather than reeling off a script. That they managed to tell a story in a match 5 minutes long when other promotions are doing 20 minute TV spot fests where everybody gets their shit in before a rushed roll-up finish is such a breath of fresh air. Yes it's a throwback, but it also shows how wrestling can work. I didn't manage to see the PPV as I was a little sceptical, but I genuinely feel like I've missed out on a decent show. It's the one wrestling show I try to make sure I watch every week. 

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I do wonder where they'll take this.

As much fun as the retro setting is, I think it definitely limits their appeal to a larger audience.  Older wrestling fans like us might appreciate the 80s look but I can't see it lasting for years.

On the other hand, the style of storytelling (short matches, unscripted promos, more grounded action) feels very fresh and interesting, and it's the best single hour of wrestling anywhere at the moment.  If they took this on the road, filmed in some slightly larger, slightly more interesting venues and made the look a bit more contemporary then I could see this getting on a network.

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5 hours ago, Loki said:

If they took this on the road, filmed in some slightly larger, slightly more interesting venues... 

... booked big sexy and big poppa pump to headline the next ppv... 

Fuck of out of this thread. We all know know there's nothing here for you. 

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The last thing I want is this thing to do any of what Loki suggests. Keep it small, keep it in the studio.

In other news my Wife bought me the Waffles and Tire Irons top. Chuffed.

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They shouldn't change ANYTHING.

They have the presentation down. They know what they want to be.

The biggest compliment I can give the show is that I get the same excited feeling as I had when watching Lucha Underground. That they were taking something I loved and putting a slightly different spin on it. Retaining all the best bits but presenting it in a different way.

Admittedly LU also had that issue of longevity etc but when I want to watch an alternative to WWE, shows like LU and NWA are exactly what I'm personally looking for. They feel fresh. They feel like they're offering something different. And they're not flip flopping all over the place unsure of what they are. 

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