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IANdrewDiceClay

Billy Corgan buys the NWA

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So, just trying to cut through the noise here, are you suggesting if for example Excalibur had made the exact same joke on Dynamite, he'd have gotten off with no reaction, but because racist homophobic bigoted and generally outdated Jim Cornette said it, that's the only reason people jumped on it? 

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40 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:


See but this 'I would have had a different reaction based on how much I like the person' stuff annoys me. I get it, it's human nature, you already don't like someone so 'any stick to beat them with' and all that - but essentially excusing one while condemning the other for the same act is just... hypocritical, in my opinion. Cornette is not the only one with his hands dirty here. Yes, he said it, so that responsibility is on him [and he did apologise to those who were genuinely offended by his comments] but the levels, and selective nature of, 'outrage' in these situations is blatant.

Cody joins in with a homophobic chant in Mexico. 'I'm disappointed but I like him and don't believe he meant any offense so I forgive him'.
Omega books a known paedophile on a show 'Damn, that was really out of line.. but I still love Kenny Omega so I forgive him and hope he has learnt from this.'
Ospreay openly shames women on Twitter for flying home to attend their relatives funeral or because they have accused his mate of rape 'Ospreay's a dick isn't he! lol. I'll still watch his matches though because I like him!'

Certain people are allowed to get away with things because we like them, they do cool moves and like video games/are vegan etc. and other people aren't because they say things we don't agree with about the people we like etc. It's just how it is I guess. 
 

Honestly, I think we're both arguing with an imagined other person, because this doesn't really address anything I said.

My point with having a different reaction based on who they are isn't about allowing it from one and not from another - it would be worse if I heard it from Terry Funk, because I'd be disappointed in him. Whereas with Cornette it was just a matter of time, so the reaction is more one of exasperation. To say that to hold two people to different standards of response is hypocritical is kind of missing the point - I would expect Nigel Farage or Donald Trump to say something racist, and I'd find it offensive, but if I heard the same thing from a public figure I liked - I don't know, let's say it was Sandi Toksvig for argument's sake - my reaction would be completely different, because it would be one of disappointment, of feeling let down by someone you didn't expect to have those views.

I think what you're interpreting as people only attacking Cornette for it because it's Cornette is more people hearing that Cornette said it and thinking, "well, it was only a matter of time". Other than the most blinkered of his followers, there's not one person that would have seen the headline "Jim Cornette uses racist joke on commentary" and was surprised. 

 

The other stuff you've mentioned is much of a muchness. The fact that the Cody and Omega examples you even mentioned that there was some attempt at apology or remorse, honest or otherwise, is a step above Cornette, whose response to the situation was to do a three hour podcast accepting no fault in himself and blaming everyone else - up to and including AEW fans and Donald Trump supporters.

and I think Ospreay's a bit of a wanker, and Joey Ryan isn't funny, for the record.

 

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3 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Honestly, I think we're both arguing with an imagined other person, because this doesn't really address anything I said.

My point with having a different reaction based on who they are isn't about allowing it from one and not from another - it would be worse if I heard it from Terry Funk, because I'd be disappointed in him. Whereas with Cornette it was just a matter of time, so the reaction is more one of exasperation. To say that to hold two people to different standards of response is hypocritical is kind of missing the point - I would expect Nigel Farage or Donald Trump to say something racist, and I'd find it offensive, but if I heard the same thing from a public figure I liked - I don't know, let's say it was Sandi Toksvig for argument's sake - my reaction would be completely different, because it would be one of disappointment, of feeling let down by someone you didn't expect to have those views.

I think what you're interpreting as people only attacking Cornette for it because it's Cornette is more people hearing that Cornette said it and thinking, "well, it was only a matter of time". Other than the most blinkered of his followers, there's not one person that would have seen the headline "Jim Cornette uses racist joke on commentary" and was surprised. 

 

The other stuff you've mentioned is much of a muchness. The fact that the Cody and Omega examples you even mentioned that there was some attempt at apology or remorse, honest or otherwise, is a step above Cornette, whose response to the situation was to do a three hour podcast accepting no fault in himself and blaming everyone else - up to and including AEW fans and Donald Trump supporters.

and I think Ospreay's a bit of a wanker, and Joey Ryan isn't funny, for the record.

 

 I'm not arguing with you directly - it is indeed a much broader issue overall.
However, I do genuinely think there are things we 'allow' or 'tolerate' from some that we wouldn't from others and where one person would be 'cancelled' another would be 'forgiven'.
Cornette DID apologise to those who were offended and, in fairness, of COURSE he was going to do a podcast on it... he has a podcast. Yet his apology is 'yeah he apologised BUT...' where those we like its 'well they apologised'.
It's human nature, and I'm not saying it's wrong per se, just that it annoys the shit out of me.

I've seen it with Joey Ryan [an IWC darling]: 'well he has made highly offensive tweets...' 'Yeah but context... and it's his gimmick... and blah blah blah'.'oh so wasn't Cornette [an IWC hate figure] just doing it as a gimmick?' 'No he MEANS it!.... context doesn't matter!!... it's NOT a gimmick!'. 

One, liked, actions are 'made okay'. One, not liked, actions are condemned and cannot be 'made okay' under any circumstances.

Anyway, I think we are kind/sorta arguing the same point just in a different way and from different perspectives.

Plus, and this is always a bonus with these things, we have reached common ground in agreeing Ospreay's a wanker and Joey Ryan isn't funny so, yay!
 

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If Cornette had just apologized it would have blown over. Sure myself and probably others would still think he's a complete and utter cretin but he'd probably still have his cushy little NWA job.

Only time I've found Joey Ryan tolerable was in DDT and I think Osprey is a prick.

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What Cornette said was absolutely disgusting. The fact it made it to air was horrific.

I can’t not watch the show based on it because I could quite easily find equally grotesque shit in WWE, and I still watch the product. If I dig deep, I imagine I could find some terrible stuff linked to AEW/Kahn.

If I stop watching a NWA due to this situation, I’d probably have to stop watching all wrestling for the same issue. I love wrestling, but hate the views of a number of people involved.

I’m a hypocrite. The shit side of fandom.

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I need to highlight that Cornette is an absolute cunt for saying what he said, he’s a horrid piece of shit for saying it, he knew exactly what he was saying, knew it would wind people up and said it for that very reason. If they’d have kept him, on I wouldn’t be able to watch, but because they got rid, that was enough for the wanker side of my wrestling fandom to allow myself to continue. 

Warrior was a complete fucking prick due to the shit he spouted, a grotesque twat, but I can’t help loving his mania matches with Savage & Hogan, his feud with Rude, etc. 

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10 hours ago, Kaz Hayashi said:

 imagine I could find some terrible stuff linked to AEW/Kahn.

I dare say Big Tone has done a few things that would be considered dog rough. 

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14 hours ago, Kaz Hayashi said:

If I dig deep, I imagine I could find some terrible stuff linked to AEW/Kahn.

This is another Cornette thing actually, and the main reason I dislike him - it's not that he slags off Omega or Ryan or the Bucks or whoever, because they're big enough and ugly enough to stand up for themselves, and because there's an awful lot of valid criticisms to be made of them - it's that he's, shamelessly, unapologetically, an enormous goalpost-shifting hypocrite. 

On this, it's that he started criticising Tony Khan because his father donated to the Trump campaign, and anything with a whiff of Donald Trump on it is anathema to Jim Cornette.

Except, of course, that he last worked for the WWE in 2017, after WWE Hall of Famer Donald Trump was elected, after the McMahon Family donated considerable sums to his campaign, and after Linda McMahon became a member of his administration. And that, at the time of him attacking Khan on those grounds, he was working for Trump supporting recurring InfoWars guest Billy Corgan.

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He blocked Brian Zane (Wrestling With Wregret) on twitter recently over a comment that wasn't even directed at him.

What a snowflake.

https://youtu.be/d-7mpZkmd8w

Audio of "Liberal" Cornette casually throwing the n-word around featured in the above. Don't recall ever hearing that before.

 

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Yeah, that's been going around for a few years, and there's a mid-90s shoot interview where he defends his use of it in SMW. The man has previous.

Anyway, now the NWA have done a big "Thank You" video to Cornette for all he's done for them, which is 100% the best way of dealing with someone you had to fire for doing a bad racism, obviously.

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Well Alex Shane must be thrilled at Bennett getting the NWA job.

Cornette strikes me as contrarian with hs politics. He's deliberately antagonistic for the listens. I hated his "sorry if you were offended by my comments" non-apology on his podcast, but totally smelt it coming as soon as this all kicked off. All it would have taken was for him to sincerely apologise for saying it and it might have been slightly better receoved than his doubling down.

This week's show was interesting. The tag title change was a nice moment, which would have been nicer had Robert Gibson not been crowing about it all over social media the day after the tapings.and ruined it for me. I can't be arsed paying for the PPV. Hopefully I'll find it on Dailymotion that Sunday. Let's see what season 2 has in store.

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