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mikehoncho

Wrestling things that annoy

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17 hours ago, Noah Southworth said:

Earl Hebner was one of the biggest culprits of something I hate from a referee and that’s an inconsistent cadence when it comes to counting the fall. If it was early in the match, Hebner would make the count real fast, but if it was coming up to the finish, he’d make a super slow count, and it would be a dead giveaway that the finish was coming up.

And what is it with Scott Armstrong and his arm seeming to spasm in between counts?

been watching some old Raw's and Hebner does this real noticeable in a match between Mr. Perfect & Terry Taylor, his count is fast to the point that McMahon mentions/questions it several times on commentary.

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On 02/11/2017 at 12:19 AM, Tim R-T-C said:

British Champion versus import "for the title" on Britwres shows. Because of course Keith Lee/ Tommy Dreamer/ Cody Rhodes is going to win your belt and come back next week to defend it.

Is this whine just restricted to THE title? As opposed to tag belts or, for instance, the Progress Atlas title?

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- Every fat bastard wrestler doing a senton (Joe, Owens, Wyatt, Dain, Ohno etc)

-  Wrestlers caught in the tree of woe pulling themselves up into position to take Del Rio's shitty double stomp finisher

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Talking of red personalities it annoys me that all answers and backstage interviewers are portrayed as weak and bullied by the wrestlers backstage.  I loved the fact that Mene Gene didn't take any nonsense from the heels and had almost a close affinity with the faces.  Then if a wrestler did intimidate the Mene Gene or Gorilla, it meant something, it added to their character.  Now the relationship between announcers and faces and heels is all the same, wrestlers are cool, announcers are weak dweebs.  

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8 minutes ago, boshealecta said:

Talking of red personalities it annoys me that all answers and backstage interviewers are portrayed as weak and bullied by the wrestlers backstage.  I loved the fact that Mene Gene didn't take any nonsense from the heels and had almost a close affinity with the faces.  Then if a wrestler did intimidate the Mene Gene or Gorilla, it meant something, it added to their character.  Now the relationship between announcers and faces and heels is all the same, wrestlers are cool, announcers are weak dweebs.  

Mene Gene was great

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One of the great things about Mean Gene was that he always made it clear on screen that if any wrestler even touched him, he'd sue the fuck out of them. Was a nice, simple but realistic touch: he's not a wrestler, and if there's anything heels (more the chickenshits than the monsters) live for, it's money, so they don't want to lose any of it.

It also meant it was a bigger deal when other non-wrestlers like Heenan finally got their comeuppance by being signed into matches they were clearly going to get destroyed in, after ages of hiding behind that legal protection from the face.

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To add to that, Mean Gene came across like he was actually interviewing people, or actually the "investigative journalist" that every heel WWE announcer seems to call themselves. The interviewers nowadays just stand there pointing a microphone vaguely in the direction of a wrestler to let them cut a promo, and then just continue standing there while they slow fade into the next segment. There's no questioning, not even a "back to you guys at ringside", they're nothing but a prop. All they ever get to say is, "joining me, my guest at this time...", which is one of those "Nobody speaks like this in real life" phrases you're guaranteed to hear half a dozen times on any given WWE show, that winds me right up.

The "announcers are weak dweebs" syndrome is something I'd blame on The Rock, and one of the reasons I never really liked the guy. He was supposed to be a babyface, but spent half of every interview bullying and demeaning the person interviewing him for a cheap laugh.

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https://411mania.com/wrestling/kevins-random-reviews-wwf-vengeance-2001/

Rock v Jericho at Vengeance

Quote

Rock was game to give Jericho a ton of offense and let him shine

And then.. Austin v Jericho at Vengeance

Quote

Are you kidding me? The Rock gave Jericho so much, making him look like a million bucks, only to wipe it away with this overbooked mess. This should’ve been a monumental moment, but it played a backseat to Vince/Flair and Booker/Austin.

Nothing sums up the night and day approach to putting over other wrestlers that Rock and Austin had better than this.

Rock put over Jericho several times in the space of a few months, gave him plenty of offense, kept interference to what was necessary and constantly made him look like his equal, or better, in various segments.

The amount of interference in the Austin/Jericho matches at Vengeance and NWO took the piss and Austin didn't make Jericho look like he was on his level.

He couldn't even give Kurt a clean victory at Unforgiven 2001 in the days after 9/11, casting a pall over things by having his foot being under the ropes, leaving the manner of Kurt's victory in doubt.

His treatment of Booker-T was shambolic, too. I understand the supermarket segment was very entertaining but he made Booker-T look like a Brooklyn Brawler level jobber in that segment and many more.

It's a pity he couldn't take a leaf out of Bret Hart's book when Bret played his part in Austin's ascendancy to the main event in 96/97. Bret made him look like a million bucks, only winning at Survivor Series by virtue of a roll-up and at WM by blood loss (surely far, far from a resounding victory).

Edited by NoUseforaUsername

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I always found Rock infuriating because, quite often, he would let his opponent look great in the ring. But on the mic, he was the absolute worst for it. And I'll always remember the mic stuff over the in-ring stuff, as far as The Rock putting people over goes.

During the Invasion - when, admittedly, no one from WCW was allowed to get over - you had The Rock say, "who in the blue hell are you?!" to Booker T, either admitting or feigning ignorance as to who the WCW champion, and biggest name WCW had, even was. He also cut a promo on Booker T saying that the WCW Title was worthless because, "the guy from Scream, and the dog from Frasier" had held it (paraphrasing) - burying WCW, Booker T, and the championship The Rock was about to win. Now, this is Invasion stuff, and Booker was booked a joke in the matches too, so you can't pin it all on The Rock, but he was the same on the mic constantly - Armageddon Hell in a Cell, he does a goofy jokey impression of Rikishi and talks about The Undertaker "wanting to lick Kane's big red nipple" rather than, I don't know, putting any of them over as viable opponents? He never made it seem like he was at risk, or even remotely concerned by his opponent, and usually made them look like a joke in his promos - the exact opposite of the old adage that you don't call your opponent a piece of shit, because then who did you beat? He's been even worse for it since he came back to make the odd cameo, too.

It was just such a disconnect with how giving he could quite often be in the ring.

 

Austin, though, I don't know how much was him throwing his weight around and how much Vince saw him as the golden goose and wouldn't dare let anyone get heat on him. Because, as a heel, he seemed prepared to do just about anything to put guys over on him, and would bump like he hadn't bumped in years for the likes of Benoit and Jericho, but as a face he was extraordinarily well protected, and I'd struggle to think of anyone that I could say was put over by a win over babyface Steve Austin, and only a handful who were ever presented as being anything like on his level.

It's why I consider John Cena, in a way, to be the best top guy they've ever had, in terms of what he has to offer the company - can you imagine Austin or Hogan agreeing to the Summerslam "Suplex City" match Cena had with Brock Lesnar? No one in his position has ever been that giving before.

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The Rock wasn't entirely terrible on the mike for putting people over. He certainly showed arse for the Hurricane during their mini-feud, he also pulled back enough on the gags to make Jericho look like he was being taken seriously, and the WcW title promo you mentioned, I remembered more for him saying "this is the title that was held by Frank Gotch, Lou Thesz, and - woooooo! - Ric Flair!" He then went on to slag off Booker T and Dallas Page, which, true enough, is bad behaviour for putting people over, but he didn't bury the title, to my mind. And he brought Flair back into people's minds after an entire Invasion of him barely being mentioned. Sure, it didn't make much difference as Flair only appeared after the Invasion had finished, but it was still a nice touch.

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The Hurricane programme is what people normally point to when I bring this up, and he did do good work with him - I'd say Rock as a heel, especially in the "Hollywood" run, is exempt from what I was talking about. Which, if anything, makes it more frustrating that he clearly was capable of putting people over, but rarely did. He was the right foil for Jericho's "I'm not a joke!" stuff, and probably bears the least responsibility of everyone involved for Jericho's main event run not working out, though.

I looked up that WCW title promo on cagematch, here it is;

Quote

 "The Rock supposedly doesn't care about the history of the WCW? The Rock doesn't care about the WCW Title? Well The Rock knows damn well the history of the WCW Title. The Rock knows that the title traces back to Frank Gotch, Lou Thesz, Ricky Steamboat, and woooooooooo Ric Flair! The Rock also knows damn well, what in recent years the WCW title has come to... Diamond Dallas Page? Booker T? The guy from Scream 2, the dog from Married with Children, the maid from the Jeffersons! Shane McMahon, this WCW title is just like your sister, everybody gets a turn!"

So I guess it's a case of "your mileage may vary" on the point of the promo, but for me, that's a promo where he belittles the guy he's fighting, another guy employed by the company that has nothing to do with his feud, and the championship that he's about to win by saying "everybody gets a turn". Well, why do I care if you win it or not, then?

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34 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Well, why do I care if you win it or not, then?

I guess it was something to do with him winning it would bring back prestige to the belt, but yeah, wrestling.

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On 11/3/2017 at 6:42 PM, air_raid said:

Is this whine just restricted to THE title? As opposed to tag belts or, for instance, the Progress Atlas title?

Any title. Essentially any match where the outcome is obvious.

Progress play it pretty smart with their Atlas belt and it is often carried by international talent.

And The Spirit Squad winning the PCW tag titles earlier this year was certainly a surprise.

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Adam Cole also won their Cruiserweight Championship but they never were able to get him back over to defend it, so they vacated it eventually. It was apparently part of their plans with ROH for him to appear on their programming with it to show off more of their working relationship and general cross promotion. I think Steven Fludder had also hoped it would result in getting some PCW regulars some work in the States with them but nothing materialised and eventually it fell apart.

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