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Surely that headlock thing will just become funny to the point of getting over if he does it that much? Gotta be careful with shit like that.

There was indeed a danger of that, but he did well in slowing down the matches with the headlocks to the point where it stopped being funny and became irritating, especially against high-flyer blue-eyes who could pop the crowd with spectacular stuff (main one who comes to mind is X-Dream, who wasn't all that overall, but could do stuff that that FWA crowd loved).



Cactus jack used that in ECW to great affect he turned heel and beat people half the death, ECW fans cheered louder....till he started putting on headlocks. 

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Why should you care what the wrestler wants you're not part of the business you're fan.


If you love the heel to the point you're cheering wildly, to suggest the same fan doesn't care about the wrestler is a total contradiction. They care, but they're fucking ignorant to the reaction that the performer wants. They think their cheering is support, when actually it's hampering what they're trying to achieve.


Fans that were booing Hogan in 94 is different. They DIDN'T appreciate Hogan, so they booed. Booing a babyface to let them know you don't support their work as a babyface is true to your intention. Cheering a heel because you SUPPORT their work when all they want from you is boos, is the opposite to your intent. You cheer because you like Marty... he thinks you're a cunt. If you love his work as a heel, let him know by booing.


To me just comes across a bit wanky.




This is not a shot at anybody

Course not.

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It was a mistake quoting your post it was an opinion I had read on here several times and heard on podcasts.




Here is one of Martys shirts he might think their cunts for cheering him when he's the villain but he can't miss out on that T shirt money.

And here in lies a problem nobody really wants to play the heel because it might restrict their merch sales.


If I appreciate his work should i go to the show buy this shirt and boo him. Can't have it both ways. If these fans are hampering what's trying to be achieved perhaps don't cater to them with a shirt.


Saying that I have thought about it when Zack Gibson is doing his "No 1." Promo at Progress everybody loves it and boos him out of the building it is something to behold and really adds to the show as everyone plays along. So maybe it is a better experience if everybody plays their roles but I think a bit of a mix of reactions is ok. Can't talk on the Revpro situation was not there.

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It's interesting though. When people suggest going with the crowd, for instance turning Roman Reigns heel because the crowd are booing him, people will often say, "that's pointless because the moment you turn him heel they'll just start cheering him." Ignoring the fact that WWE would be over the moon if it got him cheers, even if he was acting heelish, is that really true? Genuine question, has there ever been an example of that in mainstream pro wrestling? Where a heel was cheered, turned face, then began getting booed? Or a face was booed, turned heel, then began getting cheered? It's spoken about like it's a scientific fact, but I'm not sure I can think of many instances where that's occurred.

Most famous example of a face that was booed, turned heel, then began getting cheered is Rocky Maivia/The Rock back in 1997-98. It happened to Randy Orton to a degree too, but that was a longer process, he was booed as a babyface in 2004/05, then turned heel but I don't remember him getting cheered as a heel until 2009. What about the New Day in more recent memory? Heel getting cheered, turned face, then began getting booed is more rare, I can think of The Miz a few years ago, maybe Sheamus too.

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In WWE this can be pinpointed to when they started NXT and started bringing guys from NXT to Raw and Smackdown. This in turn brought in many fans to live shows where you no longer had a mix of casual fans and just your die hard WWE fans, you now have indy fans in amongst them and now a large portion of the fans are indy fans.



It's the same reason why WWE lost 1.3 million viewers in a period of 8 months. Literally within 8 months they went from 4 million viewers watching Raw to 2.7 million. Many casual fans have been driven away.



Vince Russo recently made a great point. If you had a collage of not just WWE Champions but actual WWE stars that weren't champions, guys like Roddy Piper, Mr Perfect, then you have Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Steve Austin, Randy Savage, John Cena, Mick Foley, The Undertaker, Yokozuna, Diesel, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Randy Orton, The Iron Sheik. If you had a picture collage of all those wrestlers and now you start adding in Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins, Sami Zayn, Dolph Ziggler.......you'd look at it and think something's not right and the truth is it isn't right. It doesn't look right or believable. They don't fit in.



And that affects crowd reactions and the WWE plays into it and so you have a roster full of guys that aren't over. A lot of wrestling fans today don't know what over means. Over means you can't walk down the street without being noticed. Over means you can't walk through an airport without people hounding you for autographs. John Cena is the only guy in WWE on the active roster that is over just now and has been for the last 5 years. That's what being over is. It's not doing fake moves in the ring and a portion of the crowd loving it.



Everything now is about workrate and the character is non existant. Wrestling used to be about characters. Wrestlers used to act a certain way. No 2 wrestlers were similar. What the WWE is doing right now is doing a very basic 1970s wrestling show. That's it. There is no stories or characters and the ratings reflect that, a large portion of the audience has changed channels. The point of this post is it's not entirely the fans fault or the wrestlers fault. It's the WWE allowing it to happen. They allowed it by hiring men and women that look like the average person on the street, they allowed their agents to book the matches in a way that heels can still pander to the crowd. They allowed it to happen by eliminating heat from the show, it's a PG show that's on after 9pm at night and they don't allow heat, no one gets heat. They allow it to happen by putting the crowd over when they do those silly chants and allowing that to happen.



The WWE could have nipped that right in the bud any time they wanted but they haven't and they still could. Unlike any other TV show which is filmed months in advance of being on TV, the WWE is live and has a fresh start every week. Next Monday on Raw they could fix all those things by writing storylines and working on characters for each wrestler and making them true to life, acting and speaking in ways that are believable. Having proper agents agent the matches that know how to get the characters over and not the moves, every wrestler on the roster should wrestle differently in the ring and they could have the announcers do their job in a way that makes everything on the show sound serious, there should be an urgency on the show. There should be many segments outside the ring. There should be a feeling of you can't miss this show, you can't change the channel during the ad breaks because you will miss something. That's how it should be done but they wont. It's just basic 1970s wrestling that just drags on for hours on end.

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Started reading that post without looking at the username. Got to this part


 If you had a picture collage of all those wrestlers and now you start adding in Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins, Sami Zayn, Dolph Ziggler.......you'd look at it and think something's not right and the truth is it isn't right. It doesn't look right or believable. They don't fit in.


And thought no, no, it can't be. Surely? He's gone hasn't he? No! No!





And stopped reading.

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Do any of you enjoy the New Day? 3 big guys.....dancing and acting silly. It reminds me of the Fresh Prince Of Bel Air and the overacting. Does anyone in the UK really sit and laugh at this stuff? I just think it's targeted at a very specific demographic. Who's the other guy that does all the overacting stuff? Chris Rock isn't it.



It's just not aimed at the average Scottish man or woman lol. Fresh Prince. Chris Rock and the New Day. What a load of shite. Absolute shite. And if anyone over the age of 12 is sitting laughing at all that shite then they need to go to take a long hard look in the mirror and get their priorities in order.

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