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York Hall pisses me off so much cheering for Marty. He's a heel. He wants boos. If you love his work, boo. If you cheer him while he's working heel, he thinks you're a cunt.

 

Air raid in revro thread.

 

This seems a pretty consistent opinion on here. With a lot of people in the business espousing it Storm and Smallman recently stick out in my mind.

 

I'm not so sure I agree, if people hadn't started booing top baby face Hulk Hogan from 94-96 would we have got the heel turn. If the fans played their role and cheered him through gritted teeth. Natural reactions are important.

 

Is it heat when you see someone booing with a massive smile on their face.

 

If you paid for your ticket you should be able to react however you want. Why should you care what the wrestler wants you're not part of the business you're fan.

 

To me just comes across a bit wanky.

 

Saying this though I'm a quiet fan, who generally never cheers heels. I do get a good laugh from them and cant be bothered to pretend that I don't.

 

If they're not getting the reaction they require its on them and not down to a load of sheep reacting how is required of them.

 

This is not a shot at anybody and I could well be wrong and would be willing to admit it.

 

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I'll react however I want because I did pay for a ticket - but that said, I usually do boo the heel, because it's just more fun to lose yourself in the moment & the theatrics of it all. Otherwise why are you there? Obnoxiously cheering a heel for their "heel skillz" is douchey. It's like going to a puppet show & constantly yelling "they're just puppets you idiots - you can see the hand moving the mouth!"

 

I'd be embarrassed to cheer a heel because I "appreciate" how good of a heel he/she is - because it does make you a smarky cunt. I've been beside these fans at shows and they're shit. They're literally doing it to show everyone how smart they are, but nobody cares. So even though I'd have the right to do it, I just wouldn't. I'd either boo a heel if they were effective or be quiet if they were shit.

 

The only exception would be if a legend you were a huge fan of was on a local show - like if HBK randomly turned up to OTT Wrestling in Dublin playing heel - of course I'd fucking cheer that - but that would be a legit natural reaction. But if he then turned on the crowd in a promo, I'd probably boo because it's more fun.

Edited by herbie747
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Yeah I mean if someone I'm genuinely excited to see comes out then it's going to be hard to hold back that excitement, especially as I don't get out much anyway. Once I'm over the initial pop I'd boo their heel antics, as long as I was invested in the babyface too. I'm not gonna cheer on Juice Robinson as he takes on Naito or Mojo Rawley taking on AJ Styles, for example. What I hate is the current "thank you Neville" and "yes yes yes" to heel beatdowns on WWE TV and probably elsewhere. thats just incredibly annoying. 

Edited by sj5522
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Generally speaking I go along with the cheer the faces, boo the heels thing, and if you don't want to react the way you are supposed to then sit on your hands and do nothing. Certainly when a guy is trying hard to be booed, it can be annoying to hear cheers. That said, Marty is a bit of different case, he wrestled so much as a babyface on the Global Wars shows to my eyes that I thought this is going to be cool when Zack turns on him, but seemingly it was just to throw you off the scent of him turning on Zack. And at this point "Superkick! Just kidding!" and "Chickenwing!" feel like such babyface spots. He has great matches, cool gimmick, and really more of a lovable rogue than a villain so I understand why York Hall would cheer him. I suppose the argument could be RevPro are aiming less of traditional UK/US yay/boo face/heel and more of that NJPW dynamic of blurred lines and cool heels a la Omega and Naito.

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If someone is supposed to be a heel and is not acting like a heel, and popping the crowd, calling out cool spots, etc - then you can't blame the crowd at all. That's just someone who's a mark for themselves. The attitude of "look how amazing I am at being a heel" is different than being a good heel.

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My point of view is if the company cant build heels and baby faces that get the preferred response from the crowd thats not the crowds fault.

 

The Miz is a prime example of being a great heel. He is so good i hate him. 

 

Steve Austin.....The Rock? didnt see much complaints about them being cheered while the company wanted them booed at the time.

Edited by quote the raven
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As stated, there's nobody more to blame for Marty Scurll's reactions than the wrestler himself and the way he's been booked.

 

I used to get hung up with it all, but it's a battle you'll never win. The wrestlers and the promotion should be doing their best to get the desired reaction, but within reason, you have to accept people can do what they want at a live show. I'd rather the "wrong reaction" than no reaction.

Edited by Benno
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I'm not going to boo someone because they are supposed to be a heel, but I will act accordingly if the match and characters are structured in a way to garner the desired reaction. I think most fans are the same, the main event of the UK Tournemant was the perfect example. Most people were behind the heel at the start of the match, both guys played it well and by the end everyone supporting the face and booing the heel.

 

Fans get a hard time on here, but the bookers don't do enough to get the right reactions. I always say a good booker gives the fans what they want and a great booker manipulates the crowd into what they want before giving it to them.

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I've covered this before, but the cheering of heels and the booong of babyfaces never bothers me. Even when it's obviously rooted in some wanky workrate opinion, it just doesn't really register on my scale of annoyance. What I can't fucking stand is the, "This Is Wrestling!" " You've Still Got it!" "You Deserve It!" shit. Absolutely does my head in and completely takes me out of the moment. Fuck right off.

 

It's interesting though. When people suggest going with the crowd, for instance turning Roman Reigns heel because the crowd are booing him, people will often say, "that's pointless because the moment you turn him heel they'll just start cheering him." Ignoring the fact that WWE would be over the moon if it got him cheers, even if he was acting heelish, is that really true? Genuine question, has there ever been an example of that in mainstream pro wrestling? Where a heel was cheered, turned face, then began getting booed? Or a face was booed, turned heel, then began getting cheered? It's spoken about like it's a scientific fact, but I'm not sure I can think of many instances where that's occurred.

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I think most are of the opinion that if their goal is to get Reigns cheered, their current path has proven to be fruitless and there seems to be little in the way of progress going forward. A heel turn at least opens another door for them to use and enables something resembling a varied approach. Of course, the mechanics of it working are all down to WWE and Reigns being on point. Granted, WWE probably fancy continuing what they're currently doing because I'm sure Reigns brings in some decent merch numbers etc.

 

Personally, I just want to see it because Reigns is bloody dull right now.

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I get the whole 'I paid for my ticket I'll cheer for who I want' shtick but I play along. it's far more enjoyable for all.

 

Plus I've heart countless countless heels say how there's nothing they love more than to get boos, abuse, genuine hate! I'm not gonna be a dick a cheer them because I like them, I'm going to BOO them because I like them!

 

For example we get Marty a lot in OTT. I think he's awesome. To show it, I bought his tshirt and give him shit, simples!

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Herbie's original post pretty much sums it up for me, but with a few exceptions.

 

Smarky or not, there's people in Britwres who I really like and will always cheer, Wolfgang for example.

 

Also, you get plenty of shit babyfaces. I've found myself saying, "I'm not cheering that useless bastard" and cheered for the other guy.

 

To sum up, I think cheer and boo who you want, but with limitations as it's a wrestling show, and all an act in the end of the day. I know as much as anyone, smarky crowds cant really put people off, so just enjoy the characters and go with what you feel.

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Genuine question, has there ever been an example of that in mainstream pro wrestling? Where a heel was cheered, turned face, then began getting booed? Or a face was booed, turned heel, then began getting cheered? It's spoken about like it's a scientific fact, but I'm not sure I can think of many instances where that's occurred.

 

This is a great point, im trying to think of one and i cant. Maybe Roman if you class the shield as heels. Im sure if he came out on Raw this week and turned heel the fans that boo him would cheer.  

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I've covered this before, but the cheering of heels and the booong of babyfaces never bothers me. Even when it's obviously rooted in some wanky workrate opinion, it just doesn't really register on my scale of annoyance. What I can't fucking stand is the, "This Is Wrestling!" " You've Still Got it!" "You Deserve It!" shit. Absolutely does my head in and completely takes me out of the moment. Fuck right off.

This.

 

There is a difference between liking/disliking someone and then being a complete dick trying to get yourself over. A good heel wouldn't get as many face reactions (Miz/Corbin to name two on Smackdown).

 

There is no way on earth you could get me cheering someone like Ziggler because he happens to be a face, fuck off. 

 

Because there are so many face/heel turns I think you will have an element of fans that will always be fond of someone even if they were face and turned heel, there isn't many out there that will do a whole career of just being a heel, in todays climate probably Rusev/Corbin are so far that I can think of on Raw/Smackdown who hasn't been turned yet. I know Cena is the obvious face that hasn't turned heel but not many others than that. 

Edited by Briefcase
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