L_E_T_H_A_L Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 I thought he was excellent, and especially enjoyed his level of intensity which was quite unique at that time. I enjoyed his feud with The Rock, although Ken destroyed him in the 4-on-4 match at Survivor Series 1997, Royal Rumble '98 (where Rock only won due to Shamrock being DQ'd), Wrestlemania XIV (decision reversed) and then in the KOTR '98 tournament final. All of them good matches. His "Lion's Den" match with Owen was also very enjoyable. The "tapping out" aspect that he brought to WWE shouldn't be understated - it has added much more drama and realism to matches than the far less visually-pleasing verbal submission. Perhaps if not for Ken, we wouldn't have saw "tapping out" until the UFC's boom period several years later. Ken was way ahead of the game in 1997, for me. I was hankering for Ken to come back for a couple of years after he left WWE to face Angle in a dream match over Angle having stole his finisher in his absence (in those simpler times, that was a good enough reason for a blood feud in my mind). I realised shortly after Ken's high profile loss to Tito that it wasn't going to happen, though and gave up on the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted July 9, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2017 I didn't want to resurrect the Tuesday Night Titans thread from 2011, but have watched a few 1984 episodes tonight and its hard to fathom this is even the same company as 2017 WWE. Granted, we're talking 30 years difference, but its certainly remarkable if not comedic to see McMahon have no problem at all in calling the product wrestling and openly acknowledging wrestlers from other promotions, if only in a nod and a wink kind of way. But what strikes me most of all is the production. Again, its almost silly to compare something 30 years apart. But yeah, TNT is a bit haphazard at best, and certainly not something you'd call glossy even by mid 80's standards. Mad to contrast that with the massively over-produced product (in my view), the WWE now presents. Kerwin Silfies is still there though! I always harp on about this, but wrestling was never meant to be a mainstream Hollywood-esque production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Cod Eye Posted July 10, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 10, 2017 I used to really like Shamrock. The way he was presented as a "the worlds most dangerous man" gave him a aura of legitimacy that fit in perfect with the Attitude Era. And I still think his entrance theme is one of the best of the era(in my opinion, of course). I never watched the UFC at the time, so the only MMA matches I've sen him in were the ones against Tito Ortiz where he was spanked and looked a bit passed it. Was he any good in his prime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted July 10, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 10, 2017 Shamrock was every lad at school's favourite. The kid who insisted he had insider knowledge of the WWF promised Ken Shamrock coming back on pretty much every RAW of 2000. He had real intensity, seemed legit, and was seriously over. As for why he wasn't a bigger deal, I'd imagine it's a mix of nagging injuries, and the same things that hindered so many in the Attitude era - so many turns, and swerves, and short-term booking problems that it was often impossible for anyone to gain momentum, and simply not being The Rock or Steve Austin. With those two floating around the top of the card, it was always going to be difficult for anybody else to be much more than The Guy Who Works With The Top Guy. There was potentially always the question mark over how long he was going to stick with the WWF rather than going back to MMA, too. Did Shamrock actually work with Austin much at all? All I've been able to find with a cursory Google search is an angle-heavy TV match in '98. It might be that, at that point in his career, Austin wasn't in the best of shape, and wasn't going to work a programme with a suplex-heavy, hard-hitting opponent. And in 1998, if you're not wrestling Steve Austin, you're not in the main event.  The significance of him introducing tapping out to the WWF can't be overstated, though - as @L_E_T_H_A_L said, it adds a whole new visual element, where a submission that can be teased, and that the audience can see, rather than the inevitable couple of seconds of "did he/didn't he" waiting for the referee to call a verbal submission which, as the audience aren't immediately engaged, is always going to be an anti-climax. I find it interesting that the next attempt to emulate MMA in submissions by WWE achieved almost the opposite, though, as they've taken away the visual element of the "drop the arm three times" routine and instead just go straight to the referee calling for the bell. More realistic, but taking away that visual element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrasslin Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Side note: Was Taz the one who introduced it to wrestling as a whole in ECW? I seem to remember hearing that at some point. The point being people couldn't speak in the Tazmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted July 10, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Wrasslin said: Side note: Was Taz the one who introduced it to wrestling as a whole in ECW? I seem to remember hearing that at some point. The point being people couldn't speak in the Tazmission. I believe so, yeah. I'm not aware of it having existed anywhere in wrestling before that - it's not outside the realms of possibility, but I've never seen it any earlier. I don't know if it was so much being unable to speak in the Tazmission - though it may have been put over like that at some point, I'm sure I can recall the odd verbal submission to it in ECW - but Taz was presented as a legit MMA guy, to capitalise on the success of UFC, and the KATA-HA-JIME (thanks, Joey Styles) as an MMA submission, so anything that added to that image was a plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 11, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 11, 2017 here's a pet hate of mine... The rise of wrestlers's blatantly slapping their legs to create the sound when a kick is landed. I understand why they do it, and it can add to a spot when done correctly but like many things in today's style it's overdone and the act of even trying to hide it has been lost. Worst offender? Finn Balor by far, its got to the point now where im just watching for him slapping his leg rather than focussing on what's actually happening in a match. Here's a fine example... Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrasslin Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 An eagle-eyed viewer might be able to see the thigh slap. A pedant, might be able to see the thigh slap. But I think if you're looking at the thigh slap you're ignoring the story. If you go to a puppet show you can see the wires. But it's about the puppets, it's not about the string. If you go to a Punch & Judy show and you're only watching the wires, you're a freak.  . . . I don't disagree with you . . . I just wanted to make a Dark Place reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted July 11, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 11, 2017 Any fans of POWERFLO in the house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I prefer Always Ultra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladiesman345 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 CW Anderson used to slap his thigh when he punched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 16 hours ago, Egg Shen said: here's a pet hate of mine... The rise of wrestlers's blatantly slapping their legs to create the sound when a kick is landed. I understand why they do it, and it can add to a spot when done correctly but like many things in today's style it's overdone and the act of even trying to hide it has been lost. Worst offender? Finn Balor by far, its got to the point now where im just watching for him slapping his leg rather than focussing on what's actually happening in a match. Here's a fine example...   I always used to notice it in Del Rio matches, but the worst one I saw was on an episode of NXT when Johnny Garagano did some sort of of stomp and he slapped both of his thighs. It wasn't a case of looking for him to do it and we know that wrestlers do it to get the sound, but it was just so blatantly obvious a blind man could have seen him do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 12, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2017 that's what gets on my tit about it, watch that Balor clip, he makes no attempt to hide the fact that he's slapping his thigh, its so blatant its distracting. Poor form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambulance Chaser Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Adam Cole is pretty bad for it. I listened to I think it was Jim Cornette who said it's been around years, which actually for some reason shocked me as I always considered it a more recent thing. But, he said the difference is they do it now with every single kick, whether 1 minute or 20 minutes in to a match, where as it used to be done on say the last punch of an exchange late in the match to create a lot more drama, like "shit he finally landed the big shot". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted July 12, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 12, 2017 10 hours ago, Ladiesman345 said: CW Anderson used to slap his thigh when he punched. The Rock as well when he did his little punch combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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