Sphinx Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 In honesty, I'm not too clued up on early Taker but I'm not sure there's anyone who can keep an audience as engaged whilst seemingly doing so little. It might sound cliche but for the majority of matches in recent memory, everything is done for a reason. He picks his opponent apart, takes his time over strikes and builds anticipation. There's not a wasted motion. So many wrestlers could learn from that even if they don't wrestle the same style. I think maybe it was Harms who did the review for Taker vs. Triple H at Mania 27 - I remember enjoying the match at the time, but on a second watch it's as brilliant a match as any to show how to have the fans in the palm of your hand. They focus on selling, physicality, pacing and structure. It's not the most complex match on paper, but they are world class at the pennies that make the pound. Â Someone said 2002 was a shit time for him but I don't agree. From memory, he had the match with Flair which was decent, the triple threat at Vengeance, a good match against Test at Summerslam and Lesnar at No Mercy in the Hell In A Cell. Oh, and the Ladder match against Jeff Hardy on Raw. I'm sure there'll be others I've forgotten, they're just the ones that spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted August 23, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2016 I'm struggling here. It's difficult to come up with anything that was truly shit due to it being his fault. As everyone has stated, he didn't choose to be pitted against the second coming and second failure of Kamala (even when he still had two left feet). I doubt he creamed his Sunday best at the thought of moving slowly against giant hairy bollocks. He basically took on the Hogan script of him vs very tall or very fat man. He managed to overcome all of that and live a long and fruitful career. Not only were the bookers testing his patience, the Fucking ring ropes were trying to have his life against Hogan at either survivor series or Tuesday in Texas. Taker single handedlly made the ministry seem formidable, I mean look at the ministry as a whole, Fucking Mable, mideon.. Jesus, it's like the dungeon of doom meets thunders NWO D team. This post doesn't even take in to consideration the brilliant matches and angles he has done, even though it focuses on the shite he was unluckily shadowed by the shower of shite I've just mentioned and managed to come out of it smelling like a none potent fart at the very worst, should highlight why he is regarded as highly as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 The only thing you can 'do' him for imo, is his run between 2000-2003 or so. Some of the 'highlights' from this period include: Â - Not selling for Rock on Raw in late 2000. It's The Rock for Christ sake. Â - Making King Kurt his Bitch in the same period (he really should have put Angle over stronger at Unforgiven instead of having the Twin Magic bullshit). Â - The whole DDP and Invasion thing. Probably the worst thing he's ever done. Whether it's no selling bollock shots from Palumbo and O'Haire or making Dallas look like an absolute jabroni in the cage at Summerslam he was a disgrace during that Summer. If he'd have shown a little 'locker room leadership' and allowed himself to be beaten on, then we could have been looking at a completely different Invasion. And that's without mentioning Kronikgate. Â - The initial Lesnar match had a bullshit ending too; insisting on standing tall at the end of whichever PPV had him throwing Brock through that glass. He eventually did the right thing, but only with the 'out' of a broken hand or wrist. Â However, these 3 or so years are massively outweighed by the other twenty. Not guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted August 23, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2016 That 2000-03 period is a tricky one to be fair to him. He maybe handled some things questionably, but then you think of who he is, how long he'd been there, his stature and what was going on around him. Â Firstly, I'd be interested in knowing when exactly did he become the locker room leader? Which year was it that everyone buckled up and thought 'yes sir'? Â That might have something to do with how he behaved in the early 00's. Within the 3 years prior you had Bret Fucking off, HBK throwing Paddy's every 5 mins, Rocks ego had reached new heights following his roles in the mummy returns and scorpion king in 01 & 02. It was around this time that a plague of wcw boys had joined the company, some of which maybe not knowing their 'place'. HHH was moving and shaking his fake adidas tracky bottoms in to Vince's heart. Austin wasn't happy around this time and decided he'd had enough, and while all this was going on, Taker is the 'locker room leader' or at least trying to be as much. Â To be honest, out of the mega stars in WWE from 97-03, he's the only one who didn't completely throw his toys out of the pram or act like a major bell end. I can forgive him for no selling a crotch shot from Chuck and while Austin and Rock are feuding with the NWO, taker pretending to care about DDP stalking his ex lass. Â Â The worst thing he has ever done in his entire career was clearly tattooing a girls name on his throat. Fucking idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted August 23, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2016 If you ignore the gimmick and all the angles and just rate him by his ring work alone he's one of, if not the, greatest wrestler ever. When I first got the Network I would just watch random matches from all periods and without even planning/realising it I basically watched nothing but Undertaker matches for about 3 days straight. All manner of opponents from a vast range of time and there's just endless brilliant matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoTheGame Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 If he never caught on then we probably wouldn't have gotten so many copycat supernatural/demon gimmicks down the years. And supernatural gimmicks are the worst so fuck him for that.  Seriously though, not guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam O'Rourke Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 The fact almost all the feedback is coming in on the opposite side to me is daunting, I won't lie. Recording tonight. This should be a good one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted August 24, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted August 24, 2016 The fact almost all the feedback is coming in on the opposite side to me is daunting, I won't lie. Recording tonight. This should be a good one... I thought that when Karl seemed so gleeful about this on the last podcast. Should just call it Against the Grain 2 because if he tries to make this stick, he's talking shite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Taker is the man. When I got into wrestling properly, he'd just come back as the dead man in 04, and looking back pretty much everything he was involved with that year was the drizzles - Booker T doing goofy Papa Shango shit with the urn, the Dudleyz match at the Bash and burying Bearer in cement, the Heidenreich feud. Apart from a really cool visual where he battered JBL, put him through his limo and smeared his blood on his chest it was a shit year for him, but he instantly became a favourite. How could he not? The entrance, the music, the gear, the eyes. Character value personified. Countless monsters have come and gone through this company but nothing beats a chicken-shit heel selling their fear of Taker Loads of his stuff doesn't age well at all, like the Ministry stuff and I'm not a fan of his Kid Rock/Limp Bizkit phase at all but he's still been involved in countless of the most important and greatest matches in company history. Dare I say more than HBK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Forget the trial, should still be a cracking listen if it's just an excuse to talk about such lunacy as feeding Mideon his blood and saying weird things like 'booger red' whilst subterranean shadowboxing his way through 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted August 24, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted August 24, 2016 - The whole DDP and Invasion thing. Probably the worst thing he's ever done. Whether it's no selling bollock shots from Palumbo and O'Haire or making Dallas look like an absolute jabroni in the cage at Summerslam he was a disgrace during that Summer. If he'd have shown a little 'locker room leadership' and allowed himself to be beaten on, then we could have been looking at a completely different Invasion. And that's without mentioning Kronikgate. Â Yeah, agreed. The way DDP was treated was a disgrace tbh. Juvenile wrestling locker-room behaviour at its worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted August 24, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted August 24, 2016 Â Case dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Further exhibit to the last remark  The moment that seemed to last a lifetime. No-one is ever going to come close to 'the streak'. The life that it took on will never be matched, the streak match was on par and even surpassed alot of title matches over the years. That will always be his legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSF Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 There are a few Mania's that no one would have given a full about without the Undertakers streak being there. His opponent generally didn't matter either, we were just waiting for him to lose on the big show and the amount of speculation each year was astounding. Â He is a legend of the top tier and his HOF induction and subsequent retirement will be up there with the best. Â I hope that when he does retire, that's it, he's gone, forever! Because Taker walking away into the sunset with one final farewell is the way his (well protected) character should go. Â True legend and one of the greatest ever. Â Not bloody guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted August 27, 2016 Awards Moderator Share Posted August 27, 2016 Very entertaining show, Â Â but that verdict is bullplop! BULLPLOP! I demand an appeal! Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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