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Agatha Christie's Paige discussion.


IANdrewDiceClay

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I wouldn't even say Paige is a trailblazer at all. She gets put on a huge pedestal because she's got that niche pale gothic thing going on that nobody else had and the blokes went "she'd probably go out with me" and the women didn't see her as being unrealistic to live up to; see AJ Lee who looked like a child. She's the Trish Stratus or Sable for neckbeards.
She was too early to make a difference like The Four Horsewomen did before completely fucking everything up, and I know people like to blame Xavier Woods or Alberto Del Rio, but she was an adult by all accounts and made some awful choices off her own back.

WWE push her as a trailblazer and a big deal because if this young lass came into the company and got absolutely ruined and spat back out in a few years without them giving her things to keep her busy and make her look important, they'd be torn to peices by the media. It's likely why they fired Emma for Shoplifting but kept Paige about despite the plethora of shit she got up to. She's not a trailblazer, or a revolutionist, she's a martyr.

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Chris Jericho said that he pitched the woman's battle royal as the "Sensational Invitation", named after Sherri Martel. That would have been absolutely perfect, but Vince knocked that on the head. Presumably, because Sherri dying in agony in a caravan without any benefits or help from the industry probably isn't something they want to remind people of.

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3 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Or Lita who, despite getting the odd run out these days, gets nowhere near the props she deserves for what she did for the women’s division.

Paige is a trail blazer, no doubt, but the women’s division Lita had to navigate was way trickier; it was barely more than soft porn when she started.

Lita and Trish stand out. Lita because she was what she was in spite of the context (and despite often having to pay lip service to what was ‘expected’ of a WWE diva) and Trish because she started out by embodying that context and then became something else.

I genuinely don’t think there’s any two wrestlers alive more influential than those two.

Trish fair enough, she started out as purely eye candy but worked her hole off and became a decent wrestler which changed the mindset of fans and probably the office too to an extent. But what did Lita do that was so trailblazing? she had her tits and ass on display just like all the other divas of the time, but unlike Trish, she never improved as a worker and was rubbish on the mic. She always looked so dangerous in the ring in nearly everything she did too. Only difference I can see between her and the rest that she had a few tattoos and did a crap moonsault. The thing she's most remembered for in the business is doing the dirty on Matt Hardy with his friend. 

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9 hours ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

Presumably, because Sherri dying in agony in a caravan without any benefits or help from the industry probably isn't something they want to remind people of.

Shit, I didn’t realise that’s what went down. Is there are a decent article about this anywhere?

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I think @DCW makes some very good points, but one thing you can't overlook is that Lita has been an inspiration to a generation of female wrestlers (and fans)- perhaps more so than Trish. Purely based on how she looked and that helped her tap into that big metal/punk/whatever subculture that tied into wrestling at the time.

But I agree that she was pretty rubbish in the ring, never improved that much (Trish was a HUGE success story in that respect) and was terrible on the mic. Always looked awkward and clumsy in the ring.

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I think the thing with Lita too was that no other woman in the company was doing the moves she did, and she was paired with the Hardyz who were similar in look and style. They were a 3 piece and so everyone got popular together.

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2 hours ago, FelatioLips said:

I think the thing with Lita too was that no other woman in the company was doing the moves she did, and she was paired with the Hardyz who were similar in look and style. They were a 3 piece and so everyone got popular together.

I think the key is that Trish tried to actually wrestle and ended up at a decent standard. You saw her development, and she could eventually put on an entertaining match.

Lita did a few high spots that the Women weren’t doing. She got pops for a hurricanrana and a moonsault. By no means was she poor based on 90% of her competition being tripe, but her success was very much about a handful of spots and her appeal to P.O.D fans. Mainly her association with the Hardys... not so much Essa Rios.

Edited by Kaz Hayashi
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The amount of shit that ladies like Lita had to go through to get to the big time... in an era when female valets or wrestlers were seen as glorified ring rats to be passed around the locker room, just rising above the sleaze and making a decent career for yourself is an impressive achievement.  

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20 minutes ago, Loki said:

The amount of shit that ladies like Lita had to go through to get to the big time... in an era when female valets or wrestlers were seen as glorified ring rats to be passed around the locker room, just rising above the sleaze and making a decent career for yourself is an impressive achievement.  

No doubt about it. As others have said, she/they seriously changed the game. Trish learned to wrestle, which is why I think she’s more akin to today’s female wrestlers and in my opinion is more akin to today’s crop of female wrestlers in WWE. Whilst blokes still wolf whistled in the crowd, she became a serious competitor, I’d say in that era, arguably the best overall female performer, bar Chyna at that time frame. Really refreshing to see after a few years of night gown matches.

Lita was an altogether different kettle of fish. Whilst not someone who stood out as an actual full match wrestler like Trish, she almost created a brand based on her gimmick. A female who can perform some cool looking high spots whilst simultaneously being completely appealing to nu-metal fans, who were 80% of the audience. Let’s be honest, plenty of males have done that over the years and it’s wirked out pretty well for them. She was hitting the same moves as her male team mates and was accepted as a legitimate 3rd member, rather than a token member. 

They both managed to break away from being purely sexualised. Even though WWE created that absolute bollocks of Trish and Vince, whilst Lita wore a thong up to her neck, they both worked completely past that, in their own way/direction, succeeded and are respected as performers.

Still... Sensational Invitational is clearly the winner.

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