Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 24, 2016 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 24, 2016 Yeah I get the styles make fights thing. But still, on the face of it it's still a case of Holm looked lacklustre before she fought Ronda, then she wrecked Ronda, then proceeded to lose her next two fights on the bounce immediately after. However you dissect it, it still looks bad on Rousey. She's the only one Holm has looked really great against in her UFC run and she's the only opponent Holm has finished since signing with the UFC. That is largely a styles thing yeah, but it still doesn't make Ronda's loss look any better, does it? At least if Holm had gone on to beast Tate and say Nunes in back-to-back title defences, it'd be a case of 'well Ronda lost but she lost to a killer'. Holm has looked very ordinary against everyone not named Ronda Rousey in the UFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theringmaster Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I got to admit I laughed when this fight was announced and a few of you on here told me not to be so sure of a Holm win and you were 100% right. To me the gig is up on Holm; Get out the early rounds and play a takedown game. The fight was won and lost in the 3rd round imo, from then on out Holm just looked clueless. As good as her boxing is and as good as her takedown defence is she is utterly useless on the ground, Tate almost submitted her in the 2nd(or was it 3rd?) and whilst there wasn't a near submission she was totally dominated on the ground this past weekend. I don't ever see Holm in title contention again unless Rousey gets the belt back and in a Holm/Rousey rematch I fully predict Rousey to win within 2-3 rounds, I honestly feel if Rousey takes her down she will tie her in knots within seconds. On a side note with Holm, Dana has frequently said in the past (before she was signed and during) how poor her management is and looking at these past 2 fights I can't help but feel Dana is right. After beating Rousey they picked Tate as a 'tune up fight' (Which Dana says he recommended against) and then their choice for a comeback fight totally dominates her. I wouldn't trust them to organise a piss up in a brewery at this stage, she has gone from Champion of the World whose kick was 'heard around the world' to a career path where she is set to become the gatekeeper of the division she was queen of just months before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 25, 2016 That's the thing though, Rousey did have Holm on the ground at one point during their fight. And not just that, she had her in position for the armbar. Rousey was almost belly down with Holm's arm between her legs, not too dissimilar to the position she armbarred Cat Zingano from...and Holm escaped. Maybe it was a case of Rousey still being dazed from the strikes on the feet so she wasn't as sharp when it hit the ground, or maybe Holm had just drilled that position like fuck in camp and had her escapes down. Regardless, Holm looked really good in the Rousey fight. And I don't just mean the striking. It wasn't just as simple as her outstriking a grappler. She actually had answers for Rousey's whole game. If you watch the fight closely, she completely shut down Ronda's clinch attempts. Without being able to clinch, Ronda was lost. Holm's gameplan was very intelligent. They knew everything starts with that clinch with Ronda. If she can get that judo grip on you and throw you, you're fucked. But she stopped the clinch game and the one time it did hit the ground, like I said, she escaped the armbar. If it wasn't for her defensive grappling it wouldn't have mattered how good her striking was, sooner or later she'd have been caught in a submission. But she had answers. I think that's why people were so confident in Holm after that win. She looked to be more than just a striker. But Tate showed you can beat her with a patient gameplan and submitted her, then Shevchenko beat her at her own game - counterstriking and timing. It's going to be hard for Holm to bounce back mentally from that, I reckon. I think a Holm vs Rousey rematch would be really interesting down the line. After their first fight I thought Holm must've just been simply all wrong for Ronda and that Ronda would never beat her. Maybe that's the case. But, while the jury's still massively out on Ronda and how she comes back mentally and physically, there is now a blueprint to beat Holm. There wasn't when Ronda fought her in November. Going off the Tate and Shevchenko fights, it's clear you don't beat Holm by taking the fight to her and playing into her counter game. You have to be patient, make her come to you and drag her into a long fight. I'd be really intrigued to see if Ronda could do that because that really goes against everything she's about as a fighter. She'd have to completely change things up from her all offence attacking style to a more strategic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chunk Posted July 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 25, 2016 What a weird fight that was for Holm. It looked like she was fighting with a huge reach disadvantage at times - she just couldn't close the distance without getting hit. Really weird considering she had the reach advantage and she used range so effectively against Rousey. Great to see Giblert cheat, get caught, serve a ban and then come back to lose. Serves him right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 25, 2016 I think it all just shows how underdeveloped the Women's division's there are. I still think there's a process taking place where the pecking order is still all to fuck, women we assume are the elite still match-up all wrong with certain others. Ronda is the only one who's really gone on a crazy streak in the UFC, and whilst Ronda is a worthy fighter i think her success owes a lot to the aura around her. I think if Ronda fought the same ladies again post-Holm we'd see some very different fights. As for Saturday night, Chunk above mentioned the reach. For someone who has such high boxing credentials i found Holm's approach strange, she rarely stayed on the outside and popped the jab or used her reach, she would just blitz forward with several punches and nearly every time Shevchennko would step off and pop her with the right hand. Great performance from Shevchenko though, sharp on the feet and looks very strong in the clinch. The division is all to cock. Barboza/Melendez was a quality scrap. Barboza on that kind of form is a very hard man to beat, stellar takedown defence and the leg kick is one of the most deadly weapons in the game. He played it a little safe which was a little disappointing from the perspective of the fans, Barboza basically put round 3 in the bag early and then coasted, but it was a very calculated and punishing performance. Who next for Eddie Alvarez? That heavyweight fight...it felt like watching some classic Pride mis-matching, Bojan Mohajlovic had no business being in there with Ngannou he was absolutely terrified. I'd be very surprised if he gets a second go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theringmaster Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 That's the thing though, Rousey did have Holm on the ground at one point during their fight. And not just that, she had her in position for the armbar. Rousey was almost belly down with Holm's arm between her legs, not too dissimilar to the position she armbarred Cat Zingano from...and Holm escaped. Maybe it was a case of Rousey still being dazed from the strikes on the feet so she wasn't as sharp when it hit the ground, or maybe Holm had just drilled that position like fuck in camp and had her escapes down. Regardless, Holm looked really good in the Rousey fight. And I don't just mean the striking. It wasn't just as simple as her outstriking a grappler. She actually had answers for Rousey's whole game. If you watch the fight closely, she completely shut down Ronda's clinch attempts. Without being able to clinch, Ronda was lost. Holm's gameplan was very intelligent. They knew everything starts with that clinch with Ronda. If she can get that judo grip on you and throw you, you're fucked. But she stopped the clinch game and the one time it did hit the ground, like I said, she escaped the armbar. If it wasn't for her defensive grappling it wouldn't have mattered how good her striking was, sooner or later she'd have been caught in a submission. But she had answers. I think that's why people were so confident in Holm after that win. She looked to be more than just a striker. But Tate showed you can beat her with a patient gameplan and submitted her, then Shevchenko beat her at her own game - counterstriking and timing. It's going to be hard for Holm to bounce back mentally from that, I reckon. I think a Holm vs Rousey rematch would be really interesting down the line. After their first fight I thought Holm must've just been simply all wrong for Ronda and that Ronda would never beat her. Maybe that's the case. But, while the jury's still massively out on Ronda and how she comes back mentally and physically, there is now a blueprint to beat Holm. There wasn't when Ronda fought her in November. Going off the Tate and Shevchenko fights, it's clear you don't beat Holm by taking the fight to her and playing into her counter game. You have to be patient, make her come to you and drag her into a long fight. I'd be really intrigued to see if Ronda could do that because that really goes against everything she's about as a fighter. She'd have to completely change things up from her all offence attacking style to a more strategic one. I honestly can't remember Ronda taking her down, I need to rewatch the fight. I have always said that Holm had the fight of her life on the night Ronda was having the worst fight of her life, Holm wasn't anywhere near as impressive in her 2 previous UFC fights (where she was strictly business) and the 2 fights since she has looked average (she may have dominated Tate but Tate was still fairly fresh at the start of the last round, hence why what happened happened.) The division is a mess but if Rousey wins the belt on her return, beats Tate and Holm in rematches it's all back to where it was and I can honestly see that happening.If we arrive that point 12 months or so down the line then it would be the perfect time for Rousey to retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 25, 2016 I watched the fight again this morning while getting ready for work. Rousey definitely gets her down, but they're folded up very awkwardly, still Holm did well to avoid any damage. Interestingly, Holm is the one that secured a proper solid takedown in the fight, which gave her top position, but she realised she's playing with fire there and let Rousey get back up. I also forgot how out of shape Rousey looked. Granted, she got battered in the first, but her cardio was well suspect and the whole charging bull approach she could only do for about half a round, which seemed to lead to her not moving intelligently when she was standing in front of Holm. The big swinging missed punched is still a great moment to watch. I still think if Rousey fights smart and actually has a game plan to negate Holm's strengths she has enough to win. Holm did that and she completely battered Rousey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members lambyUK Posted July 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 25, 2016 I watched the fight again this morning while getting ready for work. Rousey definitely gets her down, but they're folded up very awkwardly, still Holm did well to avoid any damage. Interestingly, Holm is the one that secured a proper solid takedown in the fight, which gave her top position, but she realised she's playing with fire there and let Rousey get back up. One thing that not many noticed was that Holm was out on her feet at this point. Rousey lands a heavy right and Holm's leg's completely go and the takedown is done in desperation. However, not many noticed it as the whole thing from punch to takedown happens so quickly that it's hard to spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 25, 2016 Good point. What I was surprised about while watching it back is Rousey, prior to her cardio issues and not moving intelligently, managed to land a number of meaty shots of her own which definitely rocked Holm a bit. Rousey still got battered, like, but still the first 1/3 of the 1st isn't the one-sided fight I seem to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 25, 2016 Ronda basically fought Holm like Bethe Correira/Cat Zingano fought Ronda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Bifkin Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Not a bad main card. Barboza v Melendez was good. The thing that sticks in my mind about UFC 162 is not so much Anderson Silva getting sparked out by Chris Weidman, it's the sound of Edson Barboza finishing a dude with leg kicks in a half empty arena. The sound was sickening. I love watching him though and if it was up to me I'd give him RDA next and a title shot if he gets through that. Not at all surprised by the women's match. I still think, Ronda Rousey match aside, that Holly Holm has looked a bit ordinary and one dimensional. Just think it was less than a year ago it looked like they had run out of contenders for Ronda and now we've had three champions and I reckon it could easily change hands again before the year is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 So do you reckon Shevchenko is next up for a shot at the title? The current state women's Bantamweight division does show how dominant Rousey was though in that division even with her limited skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 25, 2016 There is more buzz on Shevchenko, but I think Pena deserves it. She's currently undefeated in the UFC and just beat Zingano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 25, 2016 its hard to say, they have a weird situation now where the champion and immediate challengers dont really feel like name draws but you cant deny they their chance. Id like to see Nunes defend in Brazil if that would be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theringmaster Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I also forgot how out of shape Rousey looked. Granted, she got battered in the first, but her cardio was well suspect. This is something which is not discussed enough. Ronda was clearly suffering from exhaustion that fight, in all the build up all she talked about was wanting to take a break after this fight (she said she was going to fight again at 200)., I think everything had become to much for her, bear in mind 3 years before she was struggling to pay her rent and now she was the biggest mma star on the planet. It was just one fight o many, it was like she wanted to clean out the division to set up a Cyborg fight at 200 (and then probably retire) Just think it was less than a year ago it looked like they had run out of contenders for Ronda and now we've had three champions and I reckon it could easily change hands again before the year is out. Yeah all due respect to Nunes I don't see her long term champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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