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Egg Shen

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Likewise. Obviously, his record says he's not at the absolute elite level, but I'm now hoping he's one of those guys who eventually gets there by sheer hard work and study. He seems like he could be.

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It will be interesting, for sure. You see that he's this good at 25 and you presume he'll eventually become the best, but there are plenty of examples of fighters being a bit shot by the time they're supposed to be in their MMA prime years. Getting headkicked by a best like Barboza, for example, chips away at that potential.

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Haven't watched the whole thing yet but in the snippets I caught he came off surprisingly well. I've always thought he seemed a right little cock but he's come off well there just being himself. 

I do think it's way too soon to be presuming he'll be the best or anything though. For whatever reason, people seem to love to get carried away where Lee is concerned. And that goes all the way back to when people were saying he was going to be the next huge breakout MMA star and this and that. When all he'd done at that point was chat shit, wear weird shit and have a win over Michael Chiesa. It was solid win but fuck me. People were going on like he was some big deal way too early. He's clearly improving now. I've said since the Ferguson fight that he's better than I originally thought. He's working hard, he's good and I could see him hanging around the Top 5-10 for a while but it's not like there's this super talent there that really stands out or makes me confident he's going to be 'the man' or anything, especially in a division as loaded and tough as 155. It's not like the first time I saw Jon Jones in 2008, or Shogun in 2005, or Aldo in the WEC. Or even Conor McGregor before he went mental. These are guys you watched and thought 'hang on, we might have something special here.' I get none of that watching Kevin Lee. Which isn't a knock on him at all. Only a handful of fighters have that. Lee could go on to be a top contender, or challenge for the proper title, or maybe even win the thing depending on the matchups and who the champ is. But realistically, I just don't see him having a ton of success in the 155 shark tank at the very top end. There are things to like about his fighting style and things he does very well. But I feel like something is missing. His striking is better than it was but still not great. His BJJ is a question mark, looks OK but nothing amazing. His wrestling looks good but how good is it? He dominated Barboza but is that more because Lee is great at wrestling or that Barboza is weaker there? If he can do it to an Alvarez or Poirier or Gaethje or whoever then that question is answered but until then, it could've been more down to styles in that particular matchup. His cardio looks strong, and he showed he can deal with adversity which is good. But he's got a long way to go. 

The Rogan podcast has definitely coloured and influenced how I'll see him in future though. Used to hope he'd get twatted but he does seem a nice guy. I'll have to give the whole thing a listen sometime this week. 

Edited by wandshogun09
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Can't speak for anyone else, but I wasn't saying I think he'll be the best - I was just hoping that would be the case, as I like to see the sloggers overcome not-so-stellar records to go on to be elites through hard work, like Dos Anjos or Lawler.

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I was with you prior to the Ferguson fight, wand - I think you and I were surprised at how many people seemed to think Lee had much of a chance. However, considering he had bloody staph, I was proper impressed with how he handled Ferguson in the 1st 2 rounds, although you always sensed Ferguson was setting traps for him whenever it went to the ground. I rate Ferguson as the top 5 in the company P4P, so I expected Lee to get swallowed up, but he did really well, all things considered (even if 2nd place means nowt in MMA).

Of course, he's maybe never besting Khabib, Tony and maybe Conor with his current level of ability, but that's what being young and full of potential is all about. He needs to make a biggish leap to get to the level he needs to if he wishes to be the champion, but he's very good for his age (advanced, almost).

EDIT: And, aye, I was typing in general terms of linear development. Wasn't on about dear @Carbomb's POV.

Edited by ColinBollocks
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He was saying for a while that he would be a big star because he would appeal to the urban audience, something Jones and especially DC & Woodley don't appeal too, a guy you can put on Hip Hop shows and he doesn't come across as some wrestling nerd, that was what he was saying before the Tony fight.

I haven't watched the full interview but I think Tony will find it hard getting back in shape, to where it was at least, his régime is crazy and is easy to pick up injuries, watch him flip tyres and lift weights and you wonder why his back and knees haven't given out, with the form he was using.

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The sky the limit for Lee really. When you hear him say that he never even really trained striking until a couple of rights into his UFC stint and just how quickly he made it to the UFC in the first place, it makes you realise how fast a genetically superior athlete can develop when they focus on MMA. It's hearing how Lee appears to be taking it so seriously in terms of looking after himself and studying the game that makes me feel that Lee may become the full package.

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He seems quite faddy, though, which I always worry about in fighters. One fight it's all 'I TRAIN WEIGHTS FIFTEEN TIMES A DAY', the next it's 'IT'S ALL EXPLOSION' and now it's 'FUCK THE WEIGHTS. YOGA BRO'.

The best fighters seem to get into a groove with their training, and ride that wave. It's when the groove gets broken up that the wheels come off.

Obviously, there's benefit to changing it up if things get stale and finding a new groove, but completely changing methodologies from camp to camp (and being a fundamentalist, at the time, for that method) always seems to be trouble.

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Isn't there an argument to be made for making changes, even if nothing's gone wrong, if you get new evidence that other approaches might improve your game beyond what you originally thought? I get that there are fads, but surely there's as much danger in refusing to change at all as there is in changing too much?

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54 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

He seems quite faddy, though, which I always worry about in fighters. One fight it's all 'I TRAIN WEIGHTS FIFTEEN TIMES A DAY', the next it's 'IT'S ALL EXPLOSION' and now it's 'FUCK THE WEIGHTS. YOGA BRO'.

The best fighters seem to get into a groove with their training, and ride that wave. It's when the groove gets broken up that the wheels come off.

Obviously, there's benefit to changing it up if things get stale and finding a new groove, but completely changing methodologies from camp to camp (and being a fundamentalist, at the time, for that method) always seems to be trouble.

As soon as Lee mentioned that he never lifts weights i miss immediately thought that that'll be the new theory Rogan spews out at every opportunity. Rogans the biggest tad follower of them all.

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24 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

As soon as Lee mentioned that he never lifts weights i miss immediately thought that that'll be the new theory Rogan spews out at every opportunity. Rogans the biggest tad follower of them all.

I’m a huge Rogan fan, but that is my biggest issue with him. He’s just a massive man child, who obsesses about something then bins it abruptly.

His podcasts used to be all Gluten Free, then it was all Keto. He used to bang on about Bikram Yoga, but now it’s hill running.

That’s up to him, I guess, but it can grate. And, in general, Its fine if you’re a middle aged man with a load of money, a load of TRT and a load of free time. I’m not sure it’s the best move for a professional athlete.

Edited by d-d-d-dAz
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3 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

As soon as Lee mentioned that he never lifts weights i miss immediately thought that that'll be the new theory Rogan spews out at every opportunity. Rogans the biggest tad follower of them all.

 

Not lifting weights in combat sports is not really new. Surely Joe knows about it. Its been around in boxing forever. 20 years ago I trained at a boxing gym which had professional boxers and some beasty amateurs (I was neither) and the head coach would preach no weights.

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