David Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 The fact remains though that there are 1000's of supplements that have been used for years without incident. The market is flooded with choice. Pick one of those. Â Yeah, and they were used for years without incident because the level of testing wasn't as stringent as it is now under USADA. Those same supplements are now being added to the banned list regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chunk Posted July 20, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2016 Â Â Brock failed his test on the night of the fight as well. What a disaster. Didn't Anderson fail his night of the fight test, when he fought Diaz, as well? Are out of competition tests catching anyone that wouldn't otherwise be caught? Â Â He did fail the fight test yes. I still can't believe the hypocrisy of Silva stepping in for Jones. Silva was caught with actual anabolic steroids in his system (and given a hero's welcome), as bad as any recent failed test from any mma athlete. Â Â I said exactly the same thing. Not only that but the UFC had the cheek to then repeatedly refer to him as "the greatest of all time" throughout the build and the PPV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted July 20, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2016   im always of the opinion that as a professional athlete should be 100% aware of everything they put into their bodies, unless it's a case where the supplement company is lying about what's in their products i don't think there's any excuse for a fighter taking a tainted supplement. Didn't a supplement company immediately release a statement last week after the Jones-fiasco where they said 'don't pin this on us'.  I do find it fairly absurd that fighters can't take certain legal over the counter supplements though.  There are literally 1000's of supplements that fighters can take that are not tainted. Yet some choose a new or weird brand that poses a potential risk. Seems like a stupid move - or a pre-planned excuse, as I laid out above & David scoffed at... even though it's ridiculously simple to execute and seems to result in a 75% reduction in your suspension.  Tom Lawler said that if he's unsure about a supplement, he can take a photo, send it to the UFC USADA rep, and get a reply whether it's okay to use or not. Really simple process - there should be no confusion.   The thing that your missing here Herb is that the supplements in question aren't on any USADA list at the time of usage, are they? It's only after the fighter has been flagged, and the unopened packet is tested in a lab that they realise it could be tainted that USADA add the supplement to their list. So they can send all the photos they want, but until USADA run a lab test on it they'll not know anything.  Are you saying that every fighter should send photos of every supplement they take to USADA so that they can ask for a sealed batch to run a test on?  You're making assumptions about "new or weird" brands when you don't know what either Romero or Means took, do you? How do you know if the supplement they took is "new or weird"?  According to the fighters, they've been taking the same stuff for ages and it's only now that they're being flagged due to the seriously in-depth testing levels of USADA.  You claim that it's simple, yet you don't actually seem able to get it, do you? There's a reason why the fighters lodged appeals, and there's a reason why their sentences were reduced.  The supplements they were taking were not on any USADA banned list at the time they took them (so taking photos and shit won't work when there's nothing for USADA to base their opinion on), and the ingredients listed didn't include anything that is banned.  It was only after in-depth testing a batch of the supplement that they found trace amounts of a banned substance that the fighter had no real way of knowing about.  It's not complicated - if you want to pass your tests, only use protein or creatine (etc) that is on the approved USADA list - i.e. just ask USADA for a recommendation. It's not terribly complex.  "I want to take some creatine - but I wonder what brand is okay - I know, I'll ask USADA to tell me". Sorted.  You'd think after so many "tainted supplement" stories & excuses, that fighters would actually be more wary about their supplement choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members lambyUK Posted July 20, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2016 For all we know Herbie, the supplements that were tainted that Romero and Means took were on the list of brands that were considered ok. We don't really know though as this info hasn't been released. As UFC's USADA rep Jeff Novitsky has stated, it's impossible to say for 100% that cross contamination isn't a possibility even for brands considered safe.  It's not as easy as looking up a list and going 'yeah, they are fine'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 If USADA can clear a supplement based on a photo, then surely they know everything that is in said supplement. Even if the supplement is not on the list, surely a USADA rep can give a clear answer as to whether it is definitely kosher or not  For example, based on a photo they could say - "Yes, we've tested that in accordance to the latest regulations, it's clean"  Or - "We aren't sure about that supplement, we can't say for sure whether it is clean or not" My point is that it's unlikely that USADA will approve a supplement if there's any chance it could lead to a positive test.  Edit: Fair point about cross-contamination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted July 20, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2016 I'll summarise my take on it like this: if I was a fighter, I can guarantee I wouldn't fail a test due to a tainted supplement. Anyone who does is either a liar or an idiot. Maybe David would buy the old "tainted supplement" excuse, but I wouldn't. Ever. There are no excuses for it.  So say what you want about all the supposed complications surrounding picking the correct supplements to use - I just don;t think it's that hard at all as long as you involve USADA, only consider reputable brands, and do some basic research regarding where it's manufactured, the possibility of cross contamination, and any history of previous failures on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 20, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2016 seeing a few things online now that Brock popped for the same substance as Jon Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mole Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Nobody can give a 100% guarantee and no one is looking at pictures and saying that's cool to use, they could be fingers or any weird shit in any contained food, it's just easier to have contamination in supplements as the amount of ingredients it uses and sometimes the exact same company makes things with banned stuff for in competition but it is fine for The general man in the street that it is not an athlete, I'm sure createne is banned by WADA for athletes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 For all we know Herbie, the supplements that were tainted that Romero and Means took were on the list of brands that were considered ok. We don't really know though as this info hasn't been released.  As UFC's USADA rep Jeff Novitsky has stated, it's impossible to say for 100% that cross contamination isn't a possibility even for brands considered safe.  It's not as easy as looking up a list and going 'yeah, they are fine'.  Thing is, there is no list of supplements that are okay, there's only a list of banned supplements and banned ingredients.  In the case of Romero and Means they took a supplement that wasn't on the banned list, and that doesn't list any ingredients on the banned list.  It was only once they ran independent lab tests that they found it had been contaminated by something that wasn't on the ingredients list. Needless to say, USADA have now added that particular supplement to the banned list.   I'll summarise my take on it like this: if I was a fighter, I can guarantee I wouldn't fail a test due to a tainted supplement. Anyone who does is either a liar or an idiot. Maybe David would buy the old "tainted supplement" excuse, but I wouldn't. Ever. There are no excuses for it.  So say what you want about all the supposed complications surrounding picking the correct supplements to use - I just don;t think it's that hard at all as long as you involve USADA, only consider reputable brands, and do some basic research regarding where it's manufactured, the possibility of cross contamination, and any history of previous failures on it.  Sorry Herb, but you can guarantee fuck all. Unless you simply don't take any supplements at all, of course. And don't take any cold medicine, asthma medicine or suchlike either.  If you think that these UFC fighters are just idiots who are swaggering into their local GNC and picking up shit from the shelves then I honestly don't know what to tell you. They have people working with them who advise them on what to take and what not to take, who also advise them on diet and suchlike.  They're taking supplements that aren't on the list of banned USADA products, and that don't list any ingredients that are on the banned list given to them by USADA.  I'd also wager as well that they're not taking "new or weird" brands either, as you call them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 20, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2016 Who honestly thought Brock was clean? Did people think he simply went to the same 'horse meat' butcher as Overeem? I don't think most people are too surprised (on here, anyway) that Lesnar got caught taking something. There was plenty of discussion pre-fight about him skipping tests and he's a 39 year-old freaky-looking current wrestler. Still, most gave him the benefit, seeing as he was under USADA and nothing got flagged before the event. Plus, I think people are into the myth of Lesnar being some legit physical freak that can come back after 5 years and smash through Mark Hunt. I know Rogan, on his podcast, pretty much said as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members lambyUK Posted July 20, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted July 20, 2016  For all we know Herbie, the supplements that were tainted that Romero and Means took were on the list of brands that were considered ok. We don't really know though as this info hasn't been released.  As UFC's USADA rep Jeff Novitsky has stated, it's impossible to say for 100% that cross contamination isn't a possibility even for brands considered safe.  It's not as easy as looking up a list and going 'yeah, they are fine'.  Thing is, there is no list of supplements that are okay, there's only a list of banned supplements and banned ingredients.  In the case of Romero and Means they took a supplement that wasn't on the banned list, and that doesn't list any ingredients on the banned list.  It was only once they ran independent lab tests that they found it had been contaminated by something that wasn't on the ingredients list. Needless to say, USADA have now added that particular supplement to the banned list   Apologies and a very good point. I got caught up in all this list talk that I forgot that as you say, there's seemingly only a list of banned supplements to refer to, rather than a list of pre approved brands that are safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Show is now up on UFC Fight Pass for anyone that's not seen the show yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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